It was time for a change but Patterson crapped the bed on how he handled this one

Discussion in 'Men’s Basketball' started by FWHORN, Mar 29, 2015.

  1. FWHORN

    FWHORN 10,000+ Posts

    I am on board with it being time for Barnes to move on. He took Texas to previously unachieved heights and making 16 tournaments in 17 years and 13 straight 20 win seasons is just incredible, and I will always be thankful to Barnes will always be a Rick Barnes fan, but the fact is it was time. That said Patterson really screwed the pooch on how he did this. Telling Barnes he was staying then telling him to scapegoat an assistant or he would be fired is just a stupid move and speaks to what Patterson is, a terrible AD who ought to be following Barnes out the door. Patterson is doing more damage than can possibly be calculated with monetizing everything and not having the balls to either fire Barnes or keep him, and not play stupid games.

    Fire Patterson Now!
     
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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  2. Gontex2

    Gontex2 100+ Posts

    Don't know if there is a good way to fire anyone who has been with your program for 17 years. That being said, Barnes was told what he needed to do to keep his job and chose not to do it. How can you blame Patterson for that? Improvement was needed in the program and something had to change. By the way, you can fire me if you want to pay me more than $1 million to leave. I'll even go quietly.
     
  3. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    That's pretty much where your OP should have ended. As Gontex said, there's no easy, good, or clean way to make it happen if you're firing someone. I think Patterson extending the option (albeit with a slim likelihood of being taken) of keeping his job was about as classy as it could get, given the circumstances. I'm not certain that firing with no explanation, or firing with "hey you can take over for McWilliams in the lettermen club" is any better.
     
  4. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    ^ I said this one another thread. Turns out I was wrong. They were fired the same way.

    There is a better way to fire both than "hey you are coming back next year........ NOT!" It also sounds like the demand to fire assistants was not genuine.

    This can mean one of only three things:
    1. Patterson is a jerk.
    2. Patterson is incompetent at handling firings.
    3. Patterson honestly intended for both to come back, Bill Powers fired both and Patterson really had no say/was just the messenger.

    My money is on 3.

    I do not care if you like or dislike Brown or Barnes. It does not matter. It does matter that our athletic department has handled firing both of them poorly. It does matter on how it reflects on UT and the perception we are creating among coaches.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  5. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    How about not telling a coach: "you will be back next year. No problem."

    There is not a better way than lying that their job is secure?

    Patterson/Powers have now repeated this method twice.
     
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  6. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Because I don't think Patterson meant it. Most likely he was trumping up an extra reason to let Barnes go. Sure looks like he had already decided to fire him but for whatever reason he felt like he needed to be perceived as having some additional impetus for the firing, so he gave Barnes an ultimatum that he fully expected and hoped that Barnes wouldn't comply with.
     
  7. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    If Patterson extended him that lame scapegoat option, Barnes would've stayed if he agreed to do so. And our program would have remained stagnant, as we all know the problems extended far beyond assistants. Was a chump move by the AD, just like his jerking around football season ticket holders. No one can say he made a tough call and was forcing Barnes out, he gave him a jerkoff alternative. Patterson is toxic to our traditions and proves time and again he is nothing but a slimy CEO type.
     
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  8. shaggy refuge

    shaggy refuge 500+ Posts

    I don't know who needs to go next: Patterson or Garrido. Of course this is ignoring that humongous elephant on the women's side!
    We should have hired Luck.
     
  9. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Garrido finished in the top 4 last year... why does he need to go?

    Unlike Barnes or Brown, in Garrido's last four years he has finished in the top 8 twice (two CWS appearances) and he had also has no losing seasons. Losing to Nebraska this weekend SUCKED, but i think we should have all learned last year not to give up on Augie halfway through the year. Especially since we are currently in sole possesion of first place in the big 12.

    Augie and Patterson have no business being in the same sentence. I do not understand this "fire everyone just because" mentality.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  10. 56 Bells

    56 Bells 500+ Posts

    Actually, I think Garrido is the best coach we have on the 40 acres...period......
    We came in 3rd place in the College World Series last year---he's won 2 National Championships here----he's won more games than any college baseball coach ever, and we're sitting in 1st place in our conference.

    As for Barnes, it was 4 years past time for him to go. He's a nice man. He has the abilities to coach up a floundering program into the height of mediocrity, and he has the abilities to coach good teams to the height of mediocrity. Rick Barnes was brought here to solidify a program in need of such. And he was able to do that, just as he did at Providence and Auburn. But for UT to get to the next level, 17 years is more than enough time to take that step. Patterson did the right thing, and his firing of Barnes was done as smoothly as any firing can be done. Here's hoping someone like Tennessee or Alabama jumps at the chance to land Barnes. He will be able to coach either of those programs to the height of mediocrity, too.
     
  11. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I wish everyone would stop improperly using the word mediocre :brickwall:
     
  12. 56 Bells

    56 Bells 500+ Posts

    "of moderate ability or value"----am I really improperly using the word? I sincerely would like to know, as I thought I was using it correctly, both in definition and grammatically. Thanks!
     
  13. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Moderate = average.

    In the past 17 years, do you think the average program made the NCAA tournament 16 times, went to the final four, made 3 elite 8s, made 5 sweet 16s, had two national players of the year and produced 17 NBA players (not including this team)?

    Forgetting the country and just looking at the Big 12, OU is the only school that comes close with four fewer NCAA appearances and one fewer Naismith winner. No we were not elite like Kansas, but we certainly were not mediocre.

    Fans in general, across sports and america, seem to think there is nothing in between elite and average. We were a good, sometimes great and one year mediocre basketball program over the past 17 years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  14. utempire

    utempire 1,000+ Posts

    All Barnes needed was an assistant who could implement a good offensive scheme. Our players would just stand around most of the time. It baffles me that he could get just about anyone to help him over the years and just didn't do it. You have to give players the opportunity to succeed, put them in the right places, and I think that's where he failed them. He kept running the same thing as if TJ Ford was still out there and didn't adjust to what he had. Also when we were really good we couldn't shoot free throws. I always liked and respected him and he is a classy coach. It was time and the fans have known it for awhile now. The fans need to feel like good things are going to happen and I think stayed away because you knew it was hopeless. Our new coach will bring the excitement back.
     
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  15. Son of a Son

    Son of a Son 1,000+ Posts

    Of course this is ignoring that humongous elephant on the women's side!

    WTF are you talking about Refuge? Aston lost the best player on her team and actually made the changes needed to her team and made it to the Sweet 16. She completely re-tooled her offense mid-season and made a run at it. That is EXACTLY the kind of coach we need here at Texas!
     
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  16. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I hope so, but I do not know how anyone would know this until we hire someone.
     
  17. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    I think he was referring to the AD, not the basketball coach.
     
  18. Dewbrewer

    Dewbrewer 500+ Posts

    My 2 cents: Barnes was unable to motivate the players and create a chemistry that would lead to more wins these last 7 years. His idol is Bobby Knight and Knight would not change for anything. Barnes is inflexible and stubborn (Holmes play this season was bizarre and the handling of Turner seemed rather damaging) and it didn't allow the players to become their best. I don't believe the assistant coaches are to blame. My bet is they wanted to do some different things but they would not challenge Barnes for fear of losing their job (think about yourself and possibly a job you have had like this). And I think the players played hard for Barnes, but you need to build a special chemistry to make the sweet 16 or higher (or beat Kansas for an outright Big 12 title). I think Barnes tried hard, but he was not able to change with the times. I have been a college instructor for 23 years & I have had to change my methods to motivate students. I suspect it would be similar in coaching student athletes. Some colleagues of mine are "old-fashioned" and stubborn and they are not in the profession anymore or are no longer effective teachers. It's not necessarily right or fair, but it is reality. I appreciate Barnes' efforts and enjoyed watching many, many wins in person over the last 17 years. He did not embarrass the University but it is time to move on. It will be interesting to see if he changes his methods at his next job (and he just might if he gains an objective outlook and truly assesses his methods). He needs to learn about metacognition.

    As for Patterson, who knows exactly how all this came down. Recruits might have been involved in certain messages released but I do not know for sure. I know in certain work situations handling this type of PR can be difficult and there are many angles to be considered. I don't really like defending Patterson but I am trying to be objective and consider situations I have witnessed in my worklife.

    I just hope we find a great coach and build something special. Basketball is probably my favorite sport to watch so I hope we find a great coach that can recruit and coach and change with the times. Hpok 'em!
     
  19. yelladawgdem

    yelladawgdem 2,500+ Posts

    I think H-Town is more correct on this than many believe. Patterson doesn't strike me as a guy that would have left ASU to take over knowing that he was going to have to replace a football coach three weeks later.
     
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  20. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Do we know that when Patteron FIRST told Barnes he would be staying Patterson made the change assistant condition?
    Or did the demand to change assistant/s come later?
     
  21. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Barnes made it sound as though he was told before the request to change assistants. I guess we do not know for sure, but it didn't seem barnes was lying about it.
     
  22. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    That is what I got out of the presser a well.

    It is on one hand difficult to see a coach who has been good for Texas be treated in such shabby way. OTOH the program hasn't reached the potential the talent on the team seemed to have.
    I really wish Barnes and his assistant well. There I a school somewhere that will be lucky to get him.
    Patterson is NOT winning me over yet and his handling of this sunk him even lower.
     
  23. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I'll add that Patterson now showing up to the press conference was poor and sure made it seem as though he was hiding.
     
  24. Buffalo Chuck

    Buffalo Chuck < 25 Posts

    I think this was Patterson's GOOD moment, actually. NOTHING helps an ex-coach more than being fired and appearing to make it injudicious. NOTHING helps Barnes more than appearing to be loyal.

    THIS IS A GREAT STRATEGY. Patterson might look like a jerk to the peabrains who aren't thinkiing, but he's handed Barnes a great step up on the next coaching job. If he'd merely let him go without the apparent public misstep, Barnes' record is NOT good enough for a good job. In fact, his "one-and-done" reputation might be a serious detriment. But now, he's got a huge LOYALTY flag to wave.

    Patterson, on the other hand, will be able to tell all candidates, "I am serious about improvements. Period."

    It helps HIS position in signing the next coach. It helps Barnes on his next job.
     
  25. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Chuck I think I understand your point somewhat but to say Barnes record is not good?
    15 NCAA appearances( only missed one year here), only 3 times one and done but 2 elite eight and one Final four. Big 12 coach of the year 4 times. I would not call that a NOT Good record.
    bur don't you think there will be plenty of schools interested?
     
  26. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Barnes probably ends up at Tennessee or Alabama sooner rather than later. I would be cool with him going to an SEC school and consistently beating A&M like he did here.
     
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  27. txlandagent

    txlandagent 500+ Posts

    Looks like Patterson crapped the bed on Marshall as well. He's going to Bama. I'm betting Barnes ends up at Tennessee.
     
  28. utempire

    utempire 1,000+ Posts

    There's really not a good way to handle a firing. This was necessary and at the right time in order to bring in the best candidate ASAP. What is so frustrating is after 17 years here that was the best offensive scheme the coaching staff can come up with? Standing around and with nobody cutting to the basket when the guard penetrates? Did you watch Notre Dame run a clinic on movement without the basketball against UK? TV commentators have been mentioning it over the years, everyone could see it, why not the coaches?
     
  29. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    I'm on the side that it is a good time for change--both for UT and for Barnes--but as to Notre Dame, wasn't that their first Elite Eight since the 1970s? There's always a bunch of teams doing better than you in any given year, but it's not always the same teams. Even Duke went out in the first round in '12 and '14.
     
  30. TXLonghorndad

    TXLonghorndad 100+ Posts

    Patterson is a puppet - an incompetent puppet at that.

    He told Mack that he was coming back until Powers & others said no.

    He told Rick he was coming back until he was told no.

    A puppet.
     

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