Birther Madness

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Crockett, Mar 28, 2015.

  1. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Ok: Here we are a week into the announced presidential candidacy of Ted Cruz and credible media for the right and the left is pretty much unanimously acknowledging that since his mother was American at the time of his birth, he's a natural born citizen even though his father was a foreign national and Cruz was born outside this country.

    I see lots of little facebook postings like "Now the liberal left cares where a candidate was born."
    Two problems with the postings: 1. Cruz' foreign birth is unambiguously true, while Obama's foreign birth was subject of bogus rumor.
    2. None of the media giving credence those bogus rumors bothered to figure out that it didn't affect Obama's eligibility for office. Now, a week into the Cruz campaign, they're unambiguously sure.

    Why the hell aren't viewers of FOX new and other conservative media not pissed at having their chains yanked for 4-5 years? Why are they attacking the left, instead of FOX, Donald Trump, Lou Dobbs and a cast of millions who busily sent out email about Muslim Obama's Kenyan birth but never bothered to learn it was a completely bogus non-issue? The Constitution hasn't changed since 2008. Why did FOX subject its viewers to dozens of panel discussions on the "Kenyan birth" manned by folks who looked and sounded nutty enough to attend the Mad Hatters Tea Party? Why did Trump, claiming to speak for millions, excoriate the mainstream media for rightly pooh-poohing the birther nonsense?
     
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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  2. militaryhorn

    militaryhorn Prediction Contest Manager

    Why do you care? Not trying to insult, but really why does it matter. Is it so you can say I told you so? Cruz will not win the nomination; who cares where he is born.
     
  3. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I think it goes straight to the issue of media credibility. The people who make FOX America's Most Trusted News Source need to admit they don't love FOX because of it's fearless pursuit of the truth, but rather they love it because it feeds them what they want to hear.

    I and just about everybody in the "lamestream media" was satisfied the "birther" story was bogus shortly after Alan Keyes lawsuit was dismissed and the Republican Governor of Hawaii went to the archives to verify Obama's Hawaii birth, which was also verified in local newspapers. But nevertheless my evangelical friends kept sending me emails and conservative media and legislators kept the story alive and kicking until after Obama was elected the second time.
     
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  4. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

    It is funny.
     
  5. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Crockett, the "birthers" were a joke. I never met one of these folks in real life. Just like you discount Fox News, you should probably be a little skeptical of the media which branded "birthers" as the standard bearers of the GOP.

    So likewise, these morons (who apparently are a few of my facebook friends) also are jokes. Don't waste your time thinking about the logic of all this stupidity. If you don't like Cruz, there are plenty of other legitimate things to slam him and his supporters on.
     
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  6. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin

    Anyone who is still expecting “credibility” from the American news media is unfortunately deluded.

    The “news” (pronounced noise) is a very lucrative capitalist enterprise that sells a carefully-targeted product under the pretense of a public service. It has not been anything else for quite a while.
     
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  7. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I'm sorry if this came across as criticism of Cruz, who is an innocent bystander to the "birther" madness. The criticism is of media that fed the false hope among some right wingers they could rid themselves of Obama by proving foreign birth. Those organizations/personalities either knew or should have known they were shoveling horse manure. That the GOP, which to some extent honored and catered to the birthers, it seems a little bizarre to feel put upon because somebody throws back a shovelful of what some conservatives delivered by the truckload from 2008-2012.
     
  8. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    There are birthers on this BBS. I suspect they won't admit as much now but they are here.

    John Stewart had a great piece on this last week. Essentially, he showed Fox News anchors and commentators saying repeatedly "the media needs to apologize for the Ferguson saga and especially officer Wilson who was exonerated". Then he superimposed all their Fox News birther and Benghazi tripe. Simply put, the media rarely holds itself accountable. Then again, clearly many of the personalities are being given a narrative to advance from the C-Suite. I doesn't matter if your working for Russia News Today, Al Jazeera, Fox News, MSNBC or CNN.
     
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  9. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    There are dummies who believe myths on both sides and not-so-dumbies who repeat the myths to make money or generate popularity for themselves.
     
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  10. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Yeah Deez, I can see where some might see Cruz as an extemely intelligent voice for anti-intellectualism.
     
  11. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    That's essentially his argument against global warming, right?
     
  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    My argument or Ted Cruz'?
     
  13. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    No, Ted Cruz.
     
  14. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    There is an embedded link where Cruz gives his talking points. http://tammybruce.com/2015/03/video...e-alarmists-points-in-under-four-minutes.html. SH ,you and I might see a problem and logic flaw in responding to the attacks and "name calling" from those he labels "flat earthers" and "climate change alarmists" but it goes right over the heads of my conservative friends. Cruz is smart enough to formulate a logic-based response, but for his clientele, his counterattack and fact bending are in fact the "Right" Answer.
     
  15. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

    h
    usker?? who are
    you ta
    lking about???
     
  16. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    For purposes of civility I'm not going to dredge up the old threads on this topic to point them out.
     
  17. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Restated for greater scope of accuracy.

    Except for all the ones who were raising heck about it and saying he was Canadian, yes it was unanimous.
     
  18. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Is there a media outlet with a masthead, call letters or a permanent website anywhere that is making an issue about Cruz' Canadian birth? Sure, there might individual liberals who tired of the BS being shoveled at Obama over birth location for four years might throw a shovelful back, but I've actually never seen or heard it firsthand from a liberal.
     
  19. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    In other news, Mitt Romney didn't pay any federal income tax.....
     
  20. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    There is plenty of hypocrisy on both sides. Democrats that condemned the Nixon administration for using the IRS as a political weapon have been pretty silent on the recent IRS scandal. And that's actually a critically important issue.
     
  21. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    There was an amazing lack of subtlety in misuse of the federal government during the Nixon administration. I have a friend who witnessed firsthand the shakedown of federal government contractors for contibutions to CREEP and subsequent cancellation of contracts when contributions did not materialize. That really didn't get a lot of coverarage until late in Watergate. I'm not a regular participant in right wing media and I know about the IRS scandal, the "lost" emails etc.

    I honestly prefer to believe the news sources I trust aren't completely jerking me around with misleading crap. Goes to the issue of credibility. When Brian Williams gets caught telling whoppers his fans abandon him. When Bill O'Reilly gets caught telling whoppers his fans are like "So."
     
  22. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    If this makes me a birther so be it: I said at the time this first came out what is he hiding, why not just release the documents if you are running for president? What is the big deal discussing when/where you were born and providing proof? If the fact his mom was from Kansas makes him a citizen no matter what then why not say so?

    I thought it was interesting when the blue pamphlet from his college days came out discussing the Kenyan born blah blah blah or whatever in his bio. But to me that was just contradictory to the Hawaii born message and that was the interesting part.

    Same with college grades or other employment information that the public should be asking about when vetting for a candidate to be PotUSA. Why not share that information?

    In my view those things are important vetting no matter what party you are representing.
     
  23. militaryhorn

    militaryhorn Prediction Contest Manager

    Why should grades matter on a candidate? So what your saying is that if you and I agree on every political issue and I made all Cs in my studies, then you might consider not voting for me?

    We as political followers seem to focus on the little details to much instead of looking at the big picture and how things might improve America as a whole.

    Not saying that Obama is improving America as a whole either...
     
  24. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    W's grades were lambasted, Rather got fired or retired for pointing out national guard BS, there was actual vetting. Whether his grades sucked or not is up to the people to decide in context with everything else. Why hide them? Especially if your opponent is giving them out. Same with IRS returns, etc, etc, etc, there should be full disclosure. But that is just me perhaps?

    How smart the guy/gal is certainly doesn't always translate into leadership successes for sure.
     
  25. militaryhorn

    militaryhorn Prediction Contest Manager

    I can see your point but at what point do public figures get to keep things private?

    I say stick to issues that is really what matters. If something they do is available on some public record then that is fair game but everything else is private.
     
  26. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I don't think we focus on the details too much. I think something closer to the opposite is the case. For the most part we're not very deep. We don't want an in-depth analysis on candidates' views on any issues of major relevance. Why not? Because it's boring to most people, and they don't have the brains to intelligently discuss most relevant issues in depth. That's why they turn to superficial matters to discuss and base their votes on. For example, that's why gay marriage and abortion, two issues that impact a tiny minority, get more play than taxes, entitlement reform, and transportation/traffic, which affect everybody in very profound ways.

    Somebody like zork doesn't give two squirts of piss about Obama's grades. Obama could have released his grades and had a 4.0 throughout college and law school, and that wasn't going to make zork give Obama any more consideration in voting for him. What he wants is something to criticize Obama about the way the Left criticized Bush for allegedly being dumb and to give zork something to reinforce the hostility he already has for Obama. You'll notice his response to your comment was to bring up Bush and the bullcrap he took from the Left rather than to explain the relevance of the grades. In fact, his last statement somewhat dismissed the relevance of the grades.
     
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  27. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    My bringing up Bush's grades was just to show that even he released his, to show double standards if anything. When someone declines it is more interesting since it naturally leads to what is he/she hiding?
     
  28. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I understand that, but that's sorta my point. You don't really care about the grades. You care about the political implications of the grades or the refusal to release the grades, not the grades themselves. If Obama released his grades and they were poor, you'd break his balls about it. If they were good, you still wouldn't consider voting for him. That's because the issue of his grades aren't really relevant to you.

    BTW, I don't think they should be relevant, but at the same time, I don't care if he releases them or not. I can think of reasons why he may not. What if he doesn't want to explain a bad grade he got 20 years ago? I don't blame him for that. It's not relevant to running for president and may not even be relevant to the content area at issue.
     
  29. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    It might be reason to say something like: I got crappy grades because I could go play Lions Municipal for 90$ a semester. :cowrose: Not that I would know anything about that nor would there be anything wrong with that.

    It is just a data point. But representing yourself as some super genius and getting mostly C's in college might open some questions up that might be relevant, perhaps. Glossing over grades, birth, etc, etc, etc, might mean you are probably going to not make yourself available to the press much or at least be very scripted with teleprompters. Sometimes past performance does matter. :usflag:
     
  30. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Two points. First, Obama didn't claim to be a super genius. That's primarily the creation of gentry liberals in urban areas who assumed he was one of them. Other people claiming that he's smart doesn't justify his privacy being invaded. Second, college grades have little bearing on a candidate's brains, and there are better ways to find out if someone's smart, such as by listening to what they say and how they say it. Scott Walker is a college dropout, but I think he's a pretty sharp candidate. Sarah Palin is a college graduate, and she's as dumb as a box of rocks. Hell, Sheila Jackson-Lee is a Yale and Virginia Law graduate. On paper, she should be brilliant, but instead she makes Palin look life f-ing Socrates. You really can't just a candidate's brains by his college education.
     
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