The Astonishing Rationality of the Iran Nuclear Deal

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by NJlonghorn, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    delaying them is not going to work but that doesn't mean war is the next best option. smoothing their path by taking away sanctions with nothing but words in return certainly isn't a a preferred option from my limited access to political/military/government intelligence. especially when they, different parts of the Iranian government/Mullahs, are contradicting the apparently forthcoming words of agreement?

    It is coming off to me that Kerry wants a deal no matter what by his actions even though he is still throwing in a few tough quotes for the record.
     
  2. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Horn6721- If I only read the sites you apparently read I could see how that would be your perception of Rouhani. I said he's a moderate compared to his predecessors. I fully acknowledge that all Presidential candidates are vetted by Khomeini. 36 applied and only 8 were allowed to run this last election cycle. That doesn't diminish the statement that the trend in Iran is towards moderates, much like in the USA. ;)
     
  3. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Husker
    How funny. Because in your mind and a few media Rouhani doesn't " appear" to be as radical as his predecessors that makes him ' moderate". I guess his actions and words mean nothing. What has he done that has you so convinced Rouhani is moderate?
    well :rolleyes1: okay then.
    And again Iranians dancing and cheering in the streets after being told Iran scored a great victory against the West means they are " moderate". And when they chant " Death to America" even as negotiation are going on wow that must show they love us or something?
     
  4. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Here is a column by an Israeli professor that seems to be in line with a lot that Seattle Husker has pointed out. I think it wothy of a read. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carlo...ans-_b_7041484.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  5. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    It seems the Democrats are the ones saying war, war, war, with Iran if Kerry doesn't capitulate fast enough? Who else, maybe Cheney, is talking war with Iran?
     
  6. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    This is so absurd Feinstein should be embarrassed, "As Sen. Feinstein observed, Netanyahu has been good at criticizing the United States without putting forward a single workable proposal, along the way harming U.S.-Israel ties."
    Really? Is Netanyahu privy to all the details and workings of the negotiations?

    But Netanyahu has offered a proposal. in fact it is the same one BO put forth in 2012, ""The deal we'll accept is they end their nuclear program. It's very straightforward"
     
  7. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

  8. pasotex

    pasotex 2,500+ Posts

  9. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    He knew enough to criticize the deal before it was done prompting rumors of Israeli spying on the negotiations.
     
  10. Giovanni Jones

    Giovanni Jones 2,500+ Posts

    Some more info on those S-300 missiles:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/13/putin-s-missile-could-make-u-s-attacks-on-iran-nearly-impossible.html
     
  11. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Netanyahu's "criticism" was given before the talks started and even after it was announced a framework was reached was pretty general in nature, the same positions BO had taken in 08 and again in 12.
    Can you cite ONE criticism Netanyahu spoke that suggests Bibi had "inside" information?
    Maybe when he said Israel would not be annihilate by a nation who seeks its destruction?
     
  12. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

  14. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Now we're offering them a $50 billion "bonus" to sign. That's in addition to the billions of frozen assets we'll release.

    Man this is humiliating.
     
  15. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    What is the latest? I haven't taken the time to research the topic?
     
  16. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    Is this true about the deal signed today:

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/very-good-deal-iran_990662.html

    That doesn't seem to be too prudent if true? Is the $140B Iranian funds being released or money from the USA or other? Are we still Satan after this deal?
     
  17. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    As the largest state sponsor of terrorism chants "death to America," some of you actually think this is a good deal? Good news, Assad and Putin think this is a a great deal! Only good news is that this will haunt HRC as she seems to have come out in support of it. Big question is whether congress will be able to override his veto. This will place democrats in a bad spot.

    Of all the bad governing Obama has done, not sure this one can be topped. Jimmy Carter, please hand over the trophy.
     
  18. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    So with no deal, the uranium enrichment doesn't slow down, there are no international inspections and except our benefit of imposing economic hardship on Iran, it's not really a win for us or Israel. Iran is a soverign nation. I know at one time we imposed a dictator on them, but the people overthrew him and chose their own government, much less to our liking. Those people and the politicians they support will rebel if the deal is much worse for Iran.
     
  19. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    Make the sanctions tougher and strike with missiles if necessary. Sooner or later, you will be faced with the harsh reality of military action with Iran. Burying your head in the sand is not the answer. The Neville Chamberlain approach will not work.
     
  20. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    what is the story with the 140 billion they receive? that is a lot of money to buy **** to bomb Americans(car bombs, roadside bombs, etc etc)
     
  21. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Amor Fati

    Yeah, let's blow up more **** in the Middle East against an aspiring nuclear power. Surely that will end well.
    Much sooner I'm guessing with the proposed strategy.
     
  22. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    The naivety of the left is amazing. Syria's Assad hails this as a great victory for Iran. Iranians including government officials routinely chant "Death to America" and they clearly want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and kill all Jewish people. Yet, Obama gives them a path to nuclear weapons and accelerates it with billions of dollars.

    If Kerry was negotiating for an American business, it would be bankrupt in just a few days. America got nothing for this deal - not even release of four hostages who are being tortured by the Iranians. At best, Obama is an idiot. In truth, he really is looking like someone who is pro Muslim. I have never believed this until this idiotic deal.

    Flame away sheep. Your president is a fool.
     
  23. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    What I'd like to know is WTF happened?
    2 months ago BO and his minions were all tough and on these 3 points adamant that if not part of the deal then there would be no deal.
    These are only 3 BO kowtowed :
    We will have ANYWHERE ANYTIME INSPECTIONS or NO deal.
    Iran must shut down Fordow
    Iran must fully disclose past nuclear weapons research and development (known as the PMD issue) or NO deal.

    He got none of those. The anytime /anywhere inspection requirement turned into a joke. Fordow remains open. And the US won't even be part of the inspections.

    Iran gets the 150-180 BILLION with no restrictions on how it spends it. Think the ' Moderate" Rouhani will spend it on the Iranian people OR on weapons etc to the many terrorists Iran is supplying?
    BO is sure good at drawing meaningless red lines.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Interesting article on how Congress can improve the deal without killing it.
     
  25. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    MrD
    I read the article but perhaps I am too stupid to grasp how Congress could improve the deal without killing it.

    Help me understand what the writer offered as improvements that BO would accept. Didn't the writer suggest BO would be against any changes ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015
  26. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    You're not stupid. When he calls for "improving the deal," that's not a wise choice of words, because this wouldn't actually change the terms of the deal with Iran but would change our own policies and the policies of our "allies." (I put that in quotes, because these countries should be standing by the sanctions. Their unwillingness to do so weakened our leverage, but that's a separate discussion.) Basically, he's assuming that Congress will vote to abandon the deal, which Obama will veto. What he's calling on is for Democrats to use their willingness to consider overriding the veto to leverage the White House to make other commitments that are outside the scope of the deal but could be done unilaterally by the United States and/or multilaterally with the P5+1 countries.

    "What would such a commitment include? Here is the laundry list: It would start with a guarantee of an aggressive ramp-up of American resources—money, sophisticated weapons and equipment—to help Israel and possibly our Sunni allies, to make sure that the conventional consequences of the deal do not overwhelm the pluses of a considerable delay in Iran’s nuclear capacity. In addition, there should be a guarantee of tough additional sanctions against Iran for bad behavior outside of the nuclear realm as a result of having more resources to give Hezbollah and other malevolent actors; an outline of sanctions and penalties that the United States will seek to get its P5+1 partners to agree will be imposed if Iran cheats at all, including along the margins; and a commitment to use every avenue, including force, if Iran violates the basics of the deal and moves toward a nuclear weapon."
     

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