Trouble Brewing in the South Seas

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Musburger1, May 12, 2015.

  1. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    The Wall Street Journal article is here if you a subscriber.
    Zero Hedge has a good summary here if you aren't a subscriber.

    The map below shows the area in question. Apparently there are some small islands in the vicinity which is located in international waters. China has evidently invested millions of dollars in constructing artificial islands, buildings, a landing strip, and docking areas. I'm not sure the reasons but it probably is a combination of obtaining oil and gas and establishing a military base to protect their claim as well as project power in the region.

    The United States is basically saying, "no you won't" and is hinting strongly toward an escalation where the US will challenge - militarily - China's claim to the man-made islands. Oh well. One more thing to watch for down the road.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan SEC here we come!!

    China has quietly, or not quietly if you prefer, been building a strong naval presence in the entire South China sea for a long-long time. This includes building area infrastructure as you have pointed out in mostly international waters.

    To me this is part of the long term Chinese strategy to not only dominate the region but to one day, put them in a position to take Taiwan as part of their empire. Taiwan is protected by a treaty with the US. The treaty is basically that the US will step in and prevent a takeover by Red China. I am not confident that the US would step in militarily to stop Chinese aggression, but the administration would likely use sanctions and such.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  3. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Yeah, China is going to be a problem in the years to come. And, we can't buy them off like we're trying to do with Iran. They don't need our money -- we need theirs.

    I don't think challenging them militarily is much of a threat either. First of all, Obama does have the guts for it, and secondly, our Navy has been depleted to pre-WW1 levels. We had less than 300 ships the last I heard. At one point Reagan wanted a 600 ship Navy. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
     
  4. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    We don't need no stinkin Navy or military of any kind after all wasn't BO going to heal the planet and restore our image to the world? Why look at how well he has done with Russia or with the upcoming summit here in DC of all the major Arab leaders including perhaps the most important one, Saudi Arabia.......... oh wait.
    If he would ignore his military advisors on ISIS why would we think he'd pay any attention to what China is doing. All BO has to do is reach out his hand and all will be well.
    Is it too late for us to do anything that could stop China?
     
  5. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

    Total number of ships is a silly indicator if you want to determine naval strength. The Spanish Armada had almost 200 ships, so I guess they were about 2/3s as powerful as our current Navy?
     
  6. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    How big is for instance China's Navy?
     
  7. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

    400? 500? I belive 1 of those is an aircraft carrier, compared to 18 (I think) for the US.
     
  8. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Would it surprise anyone to learn China has plans for and will greatly increase the size of their navy in the coming years. The size of their Air force etc?
    I don't see them engaging us in a war per se but they will almost certainly continue to push the envelope with impunity.
     
  9. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

  10. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    I think we have 10 or 11 carriers. We only keep 3 at sea in the various hot spots, at any one time. Some of the carriers are old and will be decommissioned soon. With slashes to the military budget the number of carriers is going to shrink.
     
  11. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I guess some haven't kept up. The way ships are counted has varied quite a bit, including some changes the admin made a year ago to add in ships not previously counted and resulted in higher numbers in one day even though no new ships launched.
    For the purposes of this thread on China and it's military capabilities perhaps active deployable battle force ships are the most relevant category.
    in that category as of May 13,2015 the US Navy currently has 272 deployable battle force ships.
    http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=146

    Is that enough? For now it seems like it may be.
     
  12. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    China won't have to fire a shot, or build a carrier. It's the economy...............stupid! The borrower is servant to the lender and we are only as omnipotent as they allow us to imagine we are.
     
  13. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    It's Barak Obama playing games again, padding the numbers. It's like the Allies putting wooden planes and inflatable tanks in a cornfield in England to fool Hitler. Boats that were previously used for miscellaneous duty are now "battle ships". I suppose we could load them with explosives and ram them into the Chinese ships, Iranian style.

    The Chinese can build a boardwalk from the mainland to Taiwan and we're not going to do anything about it as long as BO is Prez.
     
  14. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    What will Hillary do?
     
  15. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Give all the illegals a driver's license, a path to citizenship, welfare, and Sec. 8 housing to start.
     
  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I know we're in the process of reopening Naval bases in the Philippines. I'm sure this issue (and others like it) has something to do with that.
     
  17. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    holy **** batman(looking at hillary's weapon). is she the anti-jenner? wtf, satire perhaps?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

  19. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

  20. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    MrD?
    "I know we're in the process of reopening Naval bases in the Philippines?"

    There was talk about this a couple of years ago but IIRC last year BO said we would not be reopening any bases or building any new bases in the Philippines. Do you have new information?
     
  21. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    I've always thought that Hillary should be hung. Looks like she already is.
     
  22. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    This story is from March 2015. There have been others as well. There's a new defense agreement between the countries, and though it doesn't permit a permanent US base, it allows us to use their facilities, and that could last a long time. For example, we've had a US personnel at Lajes Field in the Azores (a Portuguese base) since WWII.
     
  23. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    MrD
    Exactly, The US will not be reopening Naval bases.
    What will happen is good strategically for us and the region but we are not reopening bases.
     
  24. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Perhaps, but that's not as big of an issue as you might assume. We're gaining access to their facilities and will be allowed to construct facilities for our own use and deploy troops there. That's a very big deal, and the agreement can be changed at any time to permit the permanent stationing of troops, which could easily happen if China gets more assertive. Also, keep in mind that even when we open overseas facilities of our own, they aren't sovereign US installations. They're opened under defense agreements with the host nations that allow us to be kicked out, so essentially, we don't truly own those either. That's true even here in Germany, where most of our installations are holdovers from the Allied occupation.

    (One notable exception is Guantanamo Bay, where Cuba has long wanted the US to leave, and we've told them to force us out or screw off.)
     
  25. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Actually I don't see it as an issue and certainly didn't intend to portray it as one. Just noting that your saying we were reopening naval bases there wasn't exactly accurate.
    As I said the current plan makes sense to us and to the region. BO got this one right.
     
  26. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    So you have no point here. You're just enjoying that you caught me say something inaccurate, however insignificant the accuracy was. :yippee:

    Here's your medal.[​IMG]
     
  27. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Wow Great medal!
    I can not imagine the ego level required to think that.
    If you read back you see I asked you if there was later info since you said the US was reopening naval bases there.
    Things change all the time and it could have changed.
    The last info I had was we would not reopen.
    That is all. I did not feel a need to prove you wrong.
    Sorry you feel that way.
    I enjoy your posts.
     
  28. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I know you don't feel that way. I was just goofing around.
     
  29. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    :smile1:
    The LEAST you could have done is engrave my well earned medal.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    The Phillipines kicking the U.S. out of the naval base is probably the worst decision in Asia in the last 50 years. What were they thinking?
     

Share This Page