Here we go again . . .

This thread is why I love hornfans. It's the best communication I've read on the controversy. Most media is angry and hyperpartisan, a lot more interested in being "right" than exploring what really happened.

 

So this is only one of the reasons I have never been on twitter, nor will likely ever use it in the future.

 

I just watched the first minute or so of the video (yeah, finally)...two things jump out as possible reasons for why he made the u-turn to follow Bland. 1) it does not appear that there was a front plate on her vehicle and DPS has been making a lot of stops lately for warnings related to no front plate...obviously once he got close enough to see it was an out-of-state plate on the rear, that would have ceased to be the reason to have considered a stop but also 2) the right turn she made was from an intersection controlled by a stop sign and she didn't come to a complete stop.

This may not be something that was noticed initially by the Trooper and may not have been related to what caught his attention. However, there was not a rapid acceleration to catch up to Bland like she made it out to be in the tirade she went on. She clearly did not signal and, even with a law requiring one to move out to the right and let faster traffic pass, a signal is STILL required.

Viewed in the totality of what goes into a decision to MAKE a stop, I don't see fault with the stop itself. It would be nice if some of the media reports would try to view totality of circumstance leading TO the decision to pull Bland over. It sheds more light on the JUST A TURN SIGNAL story being bandied about...

NOTE: this does not excuse the escalation or lack of professionalism DURING the stop. But that is a separate component of the equation.

 

For another perspective, one that commends Bland for knowing her rights and excoriates the officer for his behavior see , http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/...a-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/

I'm not endorsing the link, but I wonder if any lawyers or police officers would dispute the 10 "things" we should know from the article.

 

Not what I said, but I know how liberals think. How did he make his job more dangerous other than pulling over a driver under the influence? If she had followed his commands, she would have prevented all of the problems.

 

If, if, if. Fact is, Bland didn't follow his commands. That means the officer didn't create the problem. But he certainly did exacerbate it.

Here's an interesting Reddit forum discussing the case. (LEOs in the forum have a box next to their name identifying them as such.) Most of the discussion focuses on whether the officer's actions in the Bland case were "lawful". Few of the LEO's are willing to comment on whether his actions were right or smart, but some did. For example:

 

Did the po-po murder Sandra and try to cover it up? Conspiracy theory here: http://asheepnomore.net/2015/07/25/anonymous-exposes-texas-police-for-murdering-sandra-bland/

 

Wow, I hate to blow out the flames of a conspiracy, but...many years ago I worked as a reporter and anchor for TV. Unfortunately, part of the job was responding to, and reporting on suicides. I have seen many dead bodies, and seen those who have died by suicide as the result of gun shot, jumping, jumping in to water, and hanging.

I don't want to get too grisly, but her mug shot in NO way looks like a victim of hanging or strangulation. First of all, every body I have seen that died by either of these methods had very bloodshot looking eyes. The lack of oxygen causes blood vessels to burst and spots/dots of red appear in the whites of the eyes. This is called petichia. (sp) Anyone who has watched a few episodes of a CSI-type show has probably heard of this.
Every body I saw had extremely pale lips with the tongue protruding. The face was highly discolored, very dark. There was also significant damage to the neck area...once rigor mortis set in, the skin doesn't spring back in to place. I won't go on, but the allegations in that video are flat out ludicrous, and could inflame and already tense situation. Things like this make me so sad. I feel as if we have regressed by 30 years or so.

I am old enough to remember using the N word as a very young child (Mom wasn't too happy about that) I recall when a mixed race couple would, at the least, be greeted by stares and pointing. Over the past 10-15 years, I watch TV or movies, or real life, and see mixed race couples and it doesn't even cross my mind for a split second that the people are different colors. I'm not saying things are perfect, but so much has improved, and it seems like a new, younger generation are becoming enraged and divisive over incidents that are being blown out of proportion by the media. A new and younger generation that feels entitled to behaving differently than the rest of the country. I am just sad about the 2 steps back we are taking.

 

You should read this article by John McWhorter. I like McWhorter, because he isn't a blowhard, and he doesn't just kneejerk say the civil rights advocates (or SJWs as one person called them) are always wrong, though he often takes issue with them. His theory is that antiracism (and everything that implies) has essentially become the new religion of the supposedly well-educated younger people. He draws some pretty good parallels, and of course, he explains what's wrong with that.

 

Nonsensical speculation. However, I understand why these types of theories get promoted. If this is a pure suicide case in which the county failed to put Bland on suicide watch, her family may win a civil lawsuit against the county (and rightly so). However, that's not a particularly big political and PR weapon, because most sensible people put most of the blame for a suicide on the decedent, not the people who didn't protect her from herself. Furthermore, it's relatively boring and a lot harder to turn that into a racial story than a trans-agency murder conspiracy driven by some circumstantial theories but nothing that would rise to the level of real evidence.

 

That would be a more viable argument if she kills herself in the first 24 hours. However, even if they noted her as a suicide precaution and put her on a watch immediately after booking, you do not keep someone in that condition into perpetuity. After a day, they would be moved out of a 15-minute watch status and housed consistent with their custody recommendation. And prior suicide attempt by itself does not warrant placement in a 15-minute status unless there is ALSO current suicidal ideation expressed by the individual.

In this instance, though, she also had three days to realize that her actions were probably going to have cost her the job she claimed to have just been offered not to mention the lack of effort being demonstrated by her friends to answer phone calls and to go post bond (not a difficult thing to do even on a weekend).

 

You may very well be right. My main issue here is the political ramification of this fiasco. Since specific facts surrounding her death are largely unknown, it's hard to speculate what will happen. However, my guess is that Bland's family's lawyers will be able to find a suicide prevention expert of some kind who will testify that some factor in Bland's situation (perhaps something she said during booking, something she supposedly said to another inmate who claims to have told someone within the jail, etc.) warranted her being watched longer than a day. But like I said, the facts we'd need to know to judge the case with certainty are far from known.

 

Brace yourself. Link.

 

She was an activist, with at least a few, if not several, Youtube videos regarding police and their unfair treatment of black people.
In my opinion, she wanted to "have a moment" that she could post to prove her point. I was raised to be respectful to everyone--police or not. If (and when) I am pulled over, I behave in the manner I was taught, 1000 years ago in Driver's Ed. Put your hands on the wheel where they may be seen. Don't get out of the car. Tell the officer what you are doing before you do it. If it is dark, turn on your interior lights. It is pretty simple. really.

Where there times I felt like being a smart *** to a policeman? Yes. A few, but mostly I was guilty, and knew there were tons of times I wasn't pulled over. Have I been talked to disrespectfully by a policeman with a power trip?
I think when a person's first reaction to being pulled over by the police is to pull out their phone to record it, then starts to bait a policeman (who should have stayed calmer, I agree) it should be fairly obvious that there is an agenda. I imagine that she was blowing cigarette smoke in the officer's face, whether to be obnoxious or to hide other smells. The officer almost sounds puzzled when he tells her it is only a warning.

I feel badly that Sandra Bland died, and it shouldn't have happened, but I also know if I were to be jailed, I would be out in a heartbeat because a friend or family member would drop everything to get me released. That is what is really sad to me. No one came for her for 3 days.

 

And here we go again, again. The cops who shot Tamir Rice also won't be charged. Here's an article on the shooting that actually has real analysis - a rarity in the world of political commentary.

Probably 98 percent of the time, I come down in the side of the cops in these shootings. (In fact, I detest the moronic "unarmed black man" narrative that gets repeated millions of times by nutcase commentators and phony journalists, because it suggests that the officer knows or somehow should know that the person who was shot was unarmed and not dangerous, even if he was acting like a violent madman before the shooting. See the Michael Brown shooting.)

The Rice case is an exception. The cops handled this situation poorly from the beginning. I wouldn't charge them with murder, but they should be in trouble.

 

That law seems a little ridiculous. So officers are supposed to assess the threat before they get too close? A 911 call came in saying a man was waving a pistol at people in a park. I think they had to get close to protect innocent citizens.

The writer completely loses me with the final sentence. The reason Rice is dead is because he was carrying a toy that looked like a gun and pointed it at a police officer.

 

That isn't what anyone suggests. What some would like is for the totality of the circumstances to be considered rather than just the instant before the officer fires his weapon. If the officer creates his own jeopardy, should he still be allowed to use deadly force without any repercussions? That's the issue.

Nothing in the video suggests that. Also bear in mind that the 911 call also said the person was a juvenile and likely had a toy gun.

What evidence says he pointed the gun at the cop. Again, the video doesn't suggest so. What it suggests is that the cop (who had a poor record) basically showed up and ambushed the kid. Shots were fired before the vehicle even came to a stop, suggesting that the cop's original story about telling the kid to put the gun down multiple times was almost surely horse crap. It also didn't look good that nobody tried to render aid even after alleged danger was eliminated.

 

Asking police to wait to see what happens when they get a 911 call about someone pointing a gun at people will result in more police officers being shot. I know you are against that based upon previous posts.

The police were never told that it was a kid by 911 operators. Plus, Tamir weighed 195 pounds so probably looked like a man when they arrived.

I stand corrected on pointing his fake gun at officers. The video evidence apparently agreed with the police officer's statement that he reached for the pistol in his waistband. Not pointing, but definitely likely caused the officer's decision to fire.

The rendering of aid is disputed. Also, the boy's sister intervened (I do not fault her) resulting in the officer's taking her down. The police requested expedited assistance from EMS.

I just think the whole narrative that this is the police officer's fault is dumb. The fault is at a minimum Tamir's decision to point the gun at people causing the 911 call. If he is not wielding a toy gun, none of this occurs.

Also, why do people always choose Ben Crumb? Has he ever won a case?

 

I've known middle school students to do some pretty dumb stuff with pellet gun in small towns and suburbs but none of them were killed by police. The worst I remember happening was when a bb ricocheted and hit me when I was a kindergartner. My father confiscated the neighborhood kid's air rifle and smashed it on a fence post.

Should an armed person who has committed no violent crimes be given a chance to disarm peaceably? What if instead of being a black adolescent the boy had been an obese bearded white guy with an AR15 causing alarm in a park, at Chipotle or Target or the unsecured areas of the Atlanta airport?

Some of the same conservatives defending the cop who blasted this kid to death were crying a river of tears when cops or business owners had politely requested the Constitutional carriers disarm or leave.

 

If someone is pointing said firearms at people, they too will likely be shot. Again, Tamir was 195 pounds and the responding officers were never told that he "might be a kid."

Very sad situation, but hardly the fault of the police officers. If the kid was not pointing a gun at people earlier, then pulling it from his waistband later, he is celebrating the holidays with his family today.

 

I don't have any problems with the Cleveland officers actions or not being charged. It's a sad situation.

I can't fathom the calls for Rahm Emanuel to be fired after the murder charges were filed on that police officer.

There is one thing to be said about many of these cities. Everyone is/was expecting them to blowup Ferguson and Baltimore style but they the protests have remained peaceful.

 

Didn't

Didn't Emanuel cover it up until after the election? If so, not only should he be fired, he should be prosecuted.

 

They had an anti-violence rally in Newark... and a fight broke out....

http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2015/12/brawl_breaks_out_at_newark_anti-violence_rally_pho.html

 

Officer in the Bland case indicted for perjury. Link.

 

Ahhh my new home state. I'm so proud...

 

Yep, nothing like non-violence activists modeling the behavior they are railing against.