Is it "crazy" to deny knowledge of another person's religion?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Mr. Deez, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I was reading this article by Dana Milbank about the use of crazy/outlandish rhetoric by GOP politicians to attract primary voters and how it puts them at odds with a large portion of the electorate. Anybody who reads Milbank's columns knows he's a partisan Democrat and specifically an Obama hack. He's not a screaming blowhard like the people you'd see on MSNBC, but his slant is pretty clear and pretty devout.

    He specified a handful of examples of stupid things GOP candidates say, and for the most I agree with him. Talk about punching unions in the face, calling the Administration a financier of Islamic terrorists, marching Jews to the door of the oven, pretty much everything that spews out of Donald Trump's mouth, etc. are hyperbolic, very juvenile, and do nothing to promote or emphasize conservative doctrine. It's just stupid WWF-style smack talk, and it needlessly puts them at odds with a lot of voters.

    However, Milbank raised one example that I think is misplaced and frankly revealing of how ignorant he is not only about Christianity but about what religion even is as a concept. When asked if Obama was a Christian, Scott Walker said, "I don't know" and went on to specify that he presumes that Obama is what he claims to be. (Side note - is anyone aware of a Democratic presidential candidate ever being asked to comment on the religious views of a GOP candidate? Just curious.)

    Why is Walker's response "crazy?" Someone's religion is between that person and God, and it certainly isn't automatically what that person publicly claims it to be. Unless you know a person well enough to truly know his heart, you're engaging in speculation if you affirmatively and without reservation say he's a Christian or a Muslim or anything else. How many people know Barack Obama on that level? Probably not many, and I doubt that Scott Walker is one of them. If asked that question about Obama or frankly anybody that I didn't know extremely well, I'd give a comparable answer. I'd presume he was what he claimed to be, but I wouldn't say with absolute certainty that he's a Christian or anything else, and frankly I'd question the intelligence of someone who said with righteous indignation "of course he's a Christian!" as Milbank likely would.
     
  2. Larry T Spider

    Larry T Spider 100+ Posts

    It's a stupid question about a topic that doesn't really matter. He is trying to get walker on the record saying that he is a Christian so he can make fun of the people still saying he's a Muslim or ask him awkward questions about some random supporters of his that still say that. If he says anything other than that, then the writer can have a field day with the response as he did.

    For republicans: this wouldn't have ever been an issue if your Neanderthal supporters didn't scream about him being a Kenyan Muslim for years on end.
     
  3. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    It is a stupid question, but unfortunately, it does matter, because it drives narrative that motivates people to vote (both for and against a candidate). I think the purpose of the question is to put the candidate in a bind. If he says Obama's a Muslim, then obviously he looks like a wingnut to independent voters, and it will get thrown at him in the general election. If he says he's a Christian, than he alienates and demotivates the hardcore Obama haters whom the GOP needs to turn out to win the 2016 election. What I think bugs Milbank is that Walker avoided the controversy (even though I think he gave the only real and honest answer), so he's essentially trying to taint the answer by trying to draw it close to the "he's a Muslim" answer.

    This is true, except the part where you refer to "[my] Neanderthal supporters." I don't have any Neanderthals, though I've considered getting some. lol
     
  4. Larry T Spider

    Larry T Spider 100+ Posts

    The "your" was for walker. I like the guy but he has some idiots in his camp. I also think he will get a lot of the trump people when he drops out eventually. If Neanderthals do yard work, I might recruit a few myself :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    You're right, demanding Scott Walker answer religious questions is not fair. Like Larry said, "religion" is something the fringe right pulls into the conversation. They force the Republican candidates to wear it on their sleeve. The question is essentially trying to ask "are you fringe right or are you mainstream?" I'm not sure how you can proudly make religion part of your campaign stump speech and then conversely be dismayed when you get religion based questions.

    Democrats could care less about religion. In fact, it can be harmful for the fringe left support.
     
  6. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Amor Fati

    The electorate in most Western nations seem to be intelligent enough to not need this nonsense in their political discourse.
     
  7. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    "Like Larry said, "religion" is something the fringe right pulls into the conversation."

    Just to be accurate the question to Walker on BO's religion was asked by WaPo.
    and based on his answer that Walker didn't know but took BO at his word the writer came up with this??
    "said he couldn’t be sure President Obama is Christian."

    Husker
    I agree with you, The Dems COULD care less about religion since in fact they seem to care very much.
     
  8. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Like a lot of Democrats and moderates, I really resented all the emails from my "Christian" friends about Obama being a Muslim, ineligible to be president because he was born in Kenya. It seems like the strongly held feelings were coming from a place of stupidity.

    Sadly enough, a lot of these politically unsophisticated people who sent the emails and still hold to the contentions think they are really smart and among the select few who are "truly" well informed. Milbank and Walker both know these folks (and they are numerous) are trying to identify the nuttiest right winger in the primary and that's kind of hard to sort out with all the contentious contenders. I think Milbank is offering the opportunity to win that support ... while alienating people like me.

    The media love a good vs. evil story line.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  9. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    SH, respectfully, you're somewhat blurring the issue. GOP voters do force candidates to wear their religion on their sleeve, and that's a problem. I don't think voters should generally care about a candidate's religion. However, the question at issue doesn't reflect on Walker's religion. It reflects on Walker's willingness or unwillingness to speculate on someone else's religion, and there's a big difference between the two.

    In addition, the purpose of the question isn't to make religion an issue but to force Walker to alienate a small but very motivated group of supporters or close the door on attracting independent voters. I don't have a problem with that if it's on a real issue (which it was not) and if it's done to both sides, and for the most part, it is not. Certain segments of the Democratic base believe all kinds of goofy things for which their candidates are rarely required to publicly take a position.

    It depends entirely on the audience. They're going to have a different tone on religion when they're talking to a group of non-religious white people in New York City than they'll have talking to black clergy in North Carolina or Virginia.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Croc
    I feel your pain. I got many emails about the wonderful Messiah that was going to lead our country to prosperity while getting all the countries to love us once it was annoying. These were sent by people who knew I did not support BO. They were pretty ignorant of actual issues but just knew he would be " wonderful" for the country. These leftist nuts were supposedly educated people but seemed more emotional than informed.
    Interestingly I haven't heard from them lately.
     
  11. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Yep.
     
  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I don't think Milbank is asking the question. He's crapping on the answer and characterizing it as "crazy." My point is that it's probably the most honest and most appropriate answer someone could give.
     
  13. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 2,500+ Posts

    I don't have a problem with Walker's answer, and if put on the spot I don't think I'd have done any better.

    That said, I don't agree that his answer is the "most appropriate answer someone could give". An even better answer would be something like "Obama's religious beliefs are between himself and god, and it is not something I think about. There are plenty of other things about Obama that I'd prefer to discuss, such as ... (launch into a criticism of something Obama has done or said that ties into religion / morals)."
     
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  14. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    I think it is unfair to ask a man to speculate on another man's religious persuasion. Essentially, the so-called reporter is asking for the candidate to gossip about the sitting POTUS, and then planning to bash him no matter what he says in response.

    If the so-called reporter wants to ask Walker about his own religious beliefs and how those would impact his performance in office, then fair game.
     
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  15. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Nj
    Yes that would have been a better answer. Walker likely never considered someone from WaPO would ask him a uestion about BO's religion
    But next time I expect he might answer just like you suggested
     
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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    NJ, when I say it was the most appropriate answer, I meant that it was the most appropriate between the three options of 1.) not speculating at all; 2.) affirming that Obama is a Christian; or 3.) saying that Obama is not a Christian.

    Obviously, your answer is better than Walker's, but if we held our political candidates to your level of insight and intellect, they'd all look dumb. That's just not a fair standard.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Yep.
     

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