Odds of Strong getting fired this week?

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by texas_ex2000, Oct 3, 2015.

  1. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    2003,

    It's a little difficult to give you Santos' stats for the year because of something called "HEPA"; also because the NCAA prevents his hospital bed from being allowed on the field.
     
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  2. anon

    anon 25+ Posts

    It's not happening this year, or next.

    You Saban hallucinators go back to sleep.

    Briles and Patterson are scum. Fortunately, they will extinguish each other when they play later this year. Then, there will be no temptation to go on probation with either of them.
     
  3. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    Marcus Johnson has been hurt since ND game
     
  4. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    Santos is hurt and slower than Haines might I add. You rather play santos than Malik anyway I know I wouldn't
     
  5. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    It was the freaking #4 team in the country with a heisaman hopeful qb and a stud wr going against a true freshman db ( only because he was the only one we had that could match his size) some have them ranked higher it was basically walking back into southbend cmon people I'm not saying we should have expected to go there and blow them out I was expecting a little more fight though but if we keep running guys off especially after only 2 season we not be able to get anyone good without dropping a big fat guaranteed contract which is what happened with Charlie and with tickets not saleing seats not being renewed empty dkr paying Patterson and still paying Mack off I'm sorry but giving Charlie like 30 million to take a hike and then turn around and give another like 35-40 more guaranteed doesn't look like an option. Perrin or whoever they higher to take over for him needs to go to Charlie and tell hime it's time to revamp the coaching staff primarly a new oc d line and secondary coach Vance may make the cut because of the guys he lost last year but he is skating on ice thinner than a sheet of paper and higher some asst coaches from good high school programs in the state one in the Dfw Houston and central Texas areas to handle your hunt for new talent. Changes need to happen I just hope they are the right ones
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  6. LonghornCatholic

    LonghornCatholic Deo Gratias

    If we lose to Kansas, he's gone. Otherwise, he is safe for another season IMO.
     
  7. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Period. End of Discussion. Any of you who want Strong gone, but who won't let go of Mack only undercut your own arguments with your Mack love.

    Htown - if you wonder why you have not managed to change one person's mind about Strong, [and it took 50-7 to convince most of us] then here is your answer. Stop pining over Mack, and you'll have more credibility.

    Thank you Dukesteer.
     
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  8. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Easy, you are off some crazy tangent. Let me make this as simple as possible for you:

    HTown and I are just pointing out that underclassmen do not exponentially improve simply with experience and age. This premise is Caryhorn's justification for keeping CS. If Caryhorn's premise were true, than many of these upperclassmen who have been under CS the last two years would be better. They are not.
     
  9. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    DS, all HTown has done is bring facts to the discussion. On the contrary from the voice in your posts, it sounds like you have some irrational/emotional bias against MB that is clouding your judgment and opinion about Charlie Strong.

    And here's another thing. Charlie Strong is or isn't the right coach for this job. 50-7 is an only indicator of his suitability for this role. It is NOT the reason why he isn't right for the job. HTown was laying out reasons why he believed he was the wrong person for the job before the emotional devastation of 50-7. If it took 50-7 to convince people, then their judgement is not based on reason but on emotion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  10. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Bless your heart.
    Infer whatever you want from my post.
    Then re-read "facts" such as this gem, and deny whatever you want.

    Sorry, but that is never going to change anyone's mind about Strong. Just pointing out that his message about Strong might have reached more people's ears if sooner if only he did not have to insert Mack (and his sour grapes toward other fans) al the time.
    As Dukesteer said, that is a separate discussion. While we can almost all probably agree on Strong at this point, most probably don't share the same opinion regarding Mack's firing (and that dead horse has been beaten over and over again so much that its just stupid to even bring it up again at this point, IMO)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  11. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    Let me make this simple for you lmao no let me make this simple for you, how many times have these upperclassman had to change systems or coaches already it's hard to stay on the learning curve when the curve keeps changing. These guys were what freshman and sophomore for Mack so they have seen so many different things and have been taught so many different ways of doing it with all the coaching changes. The point in playing the younger guy is that it benefits the longevity of the team why start an equally talented senior over a freshman just because he is a senior? Have you seen our seniors play anyway they are not that good for example gray vs Foreman ( soph ) or Johnson vs Burt these guys get just about equal reaps outside of Johnson because he just got back from injury but of those guys who is producing more on the field? So to say they won't get better over time yeah it is hard to say but it's hard to get worse than what we are already. Look at this team the younger guys are leading it this year it's coming out of the mouths of the seniors it doesn't matter who the coach they are going to play the better guy hands down and ours just so happens to be the freshman and sophomores
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  12. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    DS,

    I'm not saying HTown doesn't like or admire Mack. He obviously does. But when he invokes Mack in regards to the performance of CS, it's discussing the benchmark of a head coach at Texas. And when he does this, he brings numbers.

    His quote you posted was a response to an obscene personal attack (see my post about emotional posters) on him about what a "good Texas fan" should be. Charlie Strong and Mack Brown were tangential to that response to that personal attack.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  13. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Thank you.
     
  14. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    Don't forget this part


    "how many times have these upperclassman had to change systems or coaches already it's hard to stay on the learning curve when the curve keeps changing. These guys were what freshman and sophomore for Mack so they have seen so many different things and have been taught so many different ways of doing it with all the coaching changes."

    This is why they say the players will get better if strong stays familiarity with the system helps any player/coach relationship so investing in the young guy who you have for 3 more years sound a lot better if an idea than they guy you only have for a few more months. Don't get me wrong if the senior is better play the senior but if the younger guy is better of course you play them.
     
  15. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

     
  16. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    It wasn't a personal attack except that I mentioned Htown by name.
    All I am saying is that Htown's message might have reached me sooner if not for the above type of quotes.
    The only reason I single Htown out is that he was certainly right about Strong (and I was wrong) and did a lot of work to bring facts to support that (and Watson) wherever he could.

    However objective he was being about Strong was muddied by less objective measures of Mack, and sour grapes. Fact is he can be right about Strong, and still wrong about Mack. But bringing up his case for Mack every time never helped his case for the former argument.
    Also, bringing up Mack as a benchmark just seems dumb to me in general, especially if you have to work so hard to spin Mack's record and convince people about the direction he was taking us. How about a benchmark for UT football without one man's name attached to it?
    If 8 or 9 wins a year floats your boat, OK! We'd all take that at this point, but its not a given that Mack would have 8 or 9 wins a year these last two years (I remember when the benchmark was 10 wins a year)
     
  17. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    If that's the way you feel, that's fair. Regardless of anyone's attachment to a particular coach, his style wasn't as effective as it could have been.

    I personally don't feel he's unreasonable in his arguments (some of them I agree with, other not so much). He supports his opinion on Mack with facts.

    Here's the obscene personal attack I was referring to that led to his response you quoted. It wasn't you DS. If it's between this guy and HTown, who's judgement and credibility do I value more?
     
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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  18. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    Womp Womp Don't believe everything you see on tv kid
     
  19. eastexhorn

    eastexhorn 250+ Posts

    Mack played a lot of rinky dinks. How many conference ships did he win.
     
  20. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I was responding to this post:
    I was not the first to bring up Mack. What happens is, I bring up Mack after someone starts trash talking him. What I cannot comprehend is, everyone hates Mack for having 4 seasons of 5-7, 8-5, 9-3 and 8-5. That was unacceptable, he had to go. I do not bring up Mack because of Mack the individual. I brought up this same stuff to my aggy friends when they fired RC. Then they went through Fran and Sherman before finding Sumlin. VolHorn argues with me, but who has Tennessee found since firing Fulmer? Tennessee was "on the mountain top of college football" according to my Tennessee family. Now they are completely irrelevant and have been for years due to the inability to find the right hire.

    Charlie Strong, who has only ever beaten North Texas, Kansas, Iowa State, West Virginia, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Rice keeps getting defended. We've had 7 losses of 20 points or more in 18 games. We had 5 last year with 6 NFL draft picks. People compare blowouts to Mack Brown. Guess what? Right now, Charlie Strong is not comparable to any Texas coach on blowout losses.

    Percentage of games coached that resulted in a 20 point or more loss (last 10 coaches):

    1. Blair Cherry 1947-1950 (43 games, 4 seasons,1 loss by 20 points or more): 2% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    2. Darrell Royal 1957-1976 (219 games, 20 seasons, 11 losses by 20 points or more): 5% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    3. Dana Bible 1937-1946 (97 games, 10 seasons, 6 losses by 20 points or more): 6% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    4. Mack Brown 1998-2013 (206 games, 16 seasons, 14 losses by 20 points or more): 7% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    5. Fred Akers 1977-1986 (119 games, 10 seasons,9 losses by 20 points or more): 8% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    6. Ed Price 1951-1956 (61 games, 6 seasons,8 losses by 20 points or more): 13% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    7. Jack Chevigny 1934-1936 (29 games, 3 seasons, 4 losses by 20 points or more): 14% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    8. John Mackovic 1992-1997 (71 games, 6 seasons,11 losses by 20 points or more): 15% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    9. David McWilliams 1987-1991 (57 games, 5 seasons,9 losses by 20 points or more): 16% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    10. Charlie Strong 2014-?? (18 games, 2 seasons, 7 losses by 20 points or more): 39% of games coached were a 20+ point loss.

    What I have been trying to do is educate our fans that have turned into aggy. It is not about Mack Brown the individual and does not have to be Mack Brown the individual. I could care less about Mack Brown the individual. I did not listen to his press conferences. I do not listen to Charlie Strong's press conference. I look at what the hell happens when i show up to a Texas game or watch one on TV. That's all I care about. I want to see us win football games. The winning coach did not have to be Mack Brown. It could have been winning coach X. All of y'all seem to having a personal f***ing relationship with Mack Brown or Charlie Strong commenting on everything they say and do. I could care less. I did not even know Mack Brown's wife's name other than people on this board complaining about her cookies. I mean why do any of y'all even care about Mack or Charlie's personality? Do any of y'all know them in person? I doubt it. It's even worse when a lot of y'all care about what 18 year old boys tweet, what they say or what their personalities are. My complaint with Charlie is he has been losing coach x. If he could be winning coach x, I would like him. Hell, if he beat OU this week, I would start to like him.

    I am trying to get our fans to realize you are not guaranteed to win anything because Texas is on our jersey. Akers had losing seasons at the end. McWilliams had mostly losing seasons. Mackovic had losing seasons. We have only 4 national titles and went 35 years in-between the last two. We won and got to where we are as a program because we kept hiring winning coach X (Bible, Cherry, DKR, Akers in the beginning, Brown, etc.). The reason Texas football is where it is today, 3rd in all time wins, is because we have done a better job for the past 100 years of hiring football coaches than everyone but Notre Dame and Michigan. Coaches that consistently win, tend to eventually put it together and win a national title. Tom Osborne won 9 or more games for 20 years without a national title before finally winning 3. DKR went 6-4, 7-4 and 6-4 in-between national titles. When you have a winning coach, you do not fire him after 3 seasons of 8 wins or more. The end results have been shown over and over and over and over in college football. Very rarely does that decision work out.

    Instead we have gone fully aggy. Our fans refuse to acknowledge firing winning coach x was a mistake (especially when there were no good hires to make in 2013 and it was clear before firing him). Our fans disparage and blame winning coach x. Meanwhile losing coach x gets excuse after excuse and a free pass for everything. In fact, it's all winning coach's x fault.

    I love Texas football. I love winning. I do not like having a laughingstock team. Now our team is as bad as it gets. Why? Our ignorant fans and Bill Powers ran off a winning coach to hire a losing coach. It's BS that I have to suffer through this **** of losing 50-7 of TCU and blowout losses all the time. The rest of you, however, deserve it. The sad part is, y'all are not even learning the lesson to be learned here which is as follows:

    The next time Texas has a national title winning coach (we've only had 2), do not run him off after an 8 win season. If we decide to run a national title winning coach off after an 8 win season, let's have a dang good replacement ready. Instead we actually said (and I can find the threads if anyone wants me to find them) "JUST ANYBODY CAN COME IN AN DO A BETTER JOB BECAUSE WE'RE TEXAS." We just had McWilliams and Mackovic yet it was believed to be impossible for Texas to lose.

    If you fire Tom Landry, you replace him with Jimmy Johnson. You do not just take a chance on anybody. (yes jimmy johnson had a terrible first season, BUT HE MADE PROGRESS IN YEAR 2!)

    However, when you have Dave Campo, are having losing seasons, and are not making any progress, you do not make excuses and just believe things are going to get better.

    That said, I have never once called for Charlie Strong to get fired and still have not. I expect him to get another shot next year. I just want our fans to realize that the next time you have a national title winning coach, you do not fire him after 3 consecutive 8 or more win seasons.

    How many winning seasons is charlie strong going to have at Texas if he is given 16 years? Mack Brown only won two conference titles so he was not any good. We're really competing for conference titles now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  21. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Those risky dinks like Nebraska, KSU, Tech, OSU, A&M, CU, Missouri were more often than not ranked (many times in the top 20) and would handle this 2015 team easily. Those 10+ win seasons also included bowl/non-conference victories over USC, Mich, LSU, and Ohio State.

    Mack won 2 and a share of a 3rd because more often than not, Oklahoma was better than Texas. Mack should have won more conference championships and should have beaten OU more. But that does not dilute the National Championship, the Rose Bowls, the BCS games, the A&M record, top 10 rankings, the All-Americans, etc.

    While I get the conference championships criticism, and it is valid, it comes across as petty/specious with regards to Mack's legacy.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  22. eastexhorn

    eastexhorn 250+ Posts

    And Swoopes looked better than Heard vs TCU.
     
  23. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Swoopes looked better against TCU's second and third string than Heard looked against TCU's first string. I really do not think our fans even watch the games. They just listen to the press conferences and make all their decisions there.
     
  24. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  25. The Apache

    The Apache 25+ Posts

    I agree we should not have a knee jerk reaction and fire Strong, he should finish this year and have a third year to see if he can get the job done. But his performance to this point just looking at the product on the field is atrocious and he should be on notice right know that things are heading towards him being fired if things do not improve significantly. I don't buy the whole its not his players he needs to have time to get his players bs. If you can't coach up the players you inherited then you aren't the kind of guy who deserves 5 mill a year. It looks to me that the upperclassmen have not improved at all under Strong. Talent isn't the problem scheme and coaching is, you think Patterson wouldn't have taken a guy like Gray and made him a stud, I do. Texas has ruined that kids career and Charlie Strong is partially responsible for that. I cut the players some slack, I cut no slack to professional coaches getting paid obscene amounts of money who can't produce results.
     
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  26. The Apache

    The Apache 25+ Posts


    Amen, its like some people on here don't know anything about football.
     
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  27. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    The crazy thing is, I have never called for Charlie to get less than 3 years. It's really not fair to give a coach less than 3 years. There have been instances of coaching losing and getting it together in year 3 (they are very rare). I get attacked and I am not even one of the many "fire charlie now" posters. However I certainly do not support 4 or 5 years without progress or a winning seasons like some.
     
  28. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Interesting stat.

    20 points during the Cherry/Bible/Royal eras also meant something completely different than in 21st Century.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  29. NBHorn7

    NBHorn7 Pimp Daddy

    Gray is a shell of what he used to before all the injuries. His speed has been greatly diminished. He doesn't make tacklers miss anymore.

    Foreman as a freshman runs behind the same poor offensive line that Gray does and makes things happen.
     
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  30. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    The odds of Strong getting fired this week are zero.

    Far less than the odds of more grossly stupid threads being started this week, I'm sad to say.
     
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