I remain strong and continue to support Coach Strong

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by mdmumme, Oct 7, 2015.

  1. mdmumme

    mdmumme < 25 Posts

    Our rally needs to stand behind Strong and give him time to turn this around. It will be the fastest process.

    I STAND BEHIND COACH STRONG!!!!
     
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  2. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Good place to stand. You wont get hit by the flak coming at him.

    What does "turn it around " mean. Pretty sure there are differing opinions.
    When Strong was hired, I remember he was expected to "turn around" 8 and 9 win bowls seasons. Which I believe means the expectation of "turn it around" would be above that level to include 10+ win seasons and contending for the National Championship.
     
  3. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    People do seem to forget everyone was saying Texas had sunk to winning 8-9 games and going 7-2 in big 12 play (such depths!) and Charlie was supposed to turn it around.
     
  4. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

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  5. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan SEC here we come!!

    I support CS and I want him to succeed here.

    However, based on a 6-7 record in 2014 that ended with a big thud vs. arky and expectations coming into this season, he better start to turn it around quickly. This team is likely to be 1-5 next week at this time with a bunch of tough games coming up. If this team eeks out only 2-3 wins this season, IMO his runway is going to get much shorter.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  6. beer_dog

    beer_dog 100+ Posts

    We want him to be successful, but when you get the dreaded vote of confidence from the big money donors during a season like this? Your chances of coming back next year are very slim.
     
  7. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  8. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    I would like for Strong to have a great finish (compared to what we've seen so far) this season and actually hit the 6 wins mark. That would be improvement and perhaps merit another season. But I've seen nothing on the field that would support that outcome. Still, if he can win a few and not get blown out, that might be enough to allow a return next year. What I expect at this point, are 2-3 more 20+ point blowouts, no signs of improvement, and the worst finish in 60 years. Then it will be up to the Administration and to BMDs to decide Strong's fate. So we'll see.
     
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  9. StructureDude

    StructureDude 100+ Posts

    I hope he gets at least 1 more year. I'm looking at the seniors that will be gone next year and it doesn't look like the loss will be that great. That's not to say that the current product is much to write home about, but it seems that there's a core of skilled players that are getting quality experience. It's one thing to drop a true freshman in the lineup and have the other 10 cover up his mistakes. It's something else to have 4 or 5 true freshman in the lineup. Hopefully these kids can come back as sophomores with some good experience and do some damage in the Big 12.
     
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  10. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    If things work out and Strong stay on, then we should expect to see a lot of those mistakes eliminated. Not saying they won't still make them here and there, but the frequency should be diminished.
     
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  11. LtSwtCrude

    LtSwtCrude Guest

  12. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    2 years isn't enough for any coach to prove if he has the goods or not but at the end of the day it's not my choice so whoever is leading the charge I will be in my seat rooting for them.
     
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  13. 22Horn

    22Horn 500+ Posts

    whats expected for 5 mill per yr
     
  14. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    I haven't heard anyone ask this question, "Is Charlie a good fit at Texas?"

    Let's look at this objectively, the Head Coach at Texas is more than an X's and O's coach. He is as much an administrator or manager as he is a coach. Not only does he have to understand a know how to manage a game, he has to handle the media/message that this program throws out to the public. Granted he does not have a Media Relations guy, thanks Patterson, but you still have to have a consistent message.

    Would Charlie be a better fit at a lower profile school like Miami? Whether this is good or bad, Mack wanted guys who dreamed their whole lives of playing at Texas, hence they committed early. Charlie recruits great athletes but those athletes commit late, are they in it for the school or themselves.

    Just some random thoughts going through my head that I thought would be interesting to discuss.....
     
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  15. Aces_Full

    Aces_Full 500+ Posts

    Have a feeling we will have some youngsters transfer out. And our recruiting for 2016 does not look very good. There will still be plenty of holes along the offensive and defensive lines next year. I fail to see how we make a big leap next season.
     
  16. StructureDude

    StructureDude 100+ Posts

    Those youngsters, including Malik, are making a ton of mistakes and yet they're still on the field. If those guys want to jump ship then they must have a laughable ego problem or just can't take the heat and should be on the sidelines anyway. Either way I would say good riddance so the team can move on to someone with a pair between their legs. There were already a couple of transfers about 1 day in to camp after kids realized they weren't going to be the "big fish". Recruiting year 1 "I don't think Strong can hold this class togher"...he did. Recruiting year 2 "This class looks weak and Strong's approach does not seem effective"...top 10 class. Recruiting year 3 "This class looks weak and Strong's approach does not seem effective"...TBD
     
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  17. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    Some guys may transfer, but probably due to wanting to have their cleats on the field and not getting to play much or at all as freshmen. Others may want to be at a program that isn't in rebuilding mode and/or don't like losses. Maybe other reasons. I not worried about the 2016 class at this point, Strong likes to push at the end of the season all the way to NSD. If we don't start getting commits in January, that may be a cause for concern.

    Should Strong lose his job? This probably depends on how we finish the season. If only 2 wins are on the record, the probability is high that he might not be back. Finish with 5 to 7 wins, he probably stays another year. As several have said above, it's not up to us. Its the BMDs and the new AD, President and the administration to make that call.
     
  18. OldHippie

    OldHippie 2,500+ Posts

    I think Strong needs to stay long enough to be able to say "these are my guys playing in my scheme." If that's not good enough to play for championships, then it will be time for him to go. I think the sign of a good coach is to be able to win with whatever recruits you can get (see Patterson and Briles). So let him get his recruits and see if he can win. For me, that's 4-5 years. But then I'm apparently more patient and willing to live with ambiguity than most.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  19. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    I have a feeling if OU stomps us there will be even fewer still hanging on to Charlie just needs time.

    It's not that most don't want CS to turn it around this season, and then have a shot at marked success in a 3rd year. It's the fact that his team needs to show progress that indicates another year or two would get us past 8-5, where he took over. So far he is failing miserably to prove he's worth wasting more time and money.

    As long as UT fans have suffered now, we should have no interest in wasting two more years if our coach is showing regressing results, an inferior staff, and lack of control of his players. At 4-8, it will be very hard to believe in a guy who goes 10-15 over his first 25 games and has a blowout loss ratio of absurd proportions.

    Going from 6-7 to 4-8 (with continued blowouts) will not forecast a coach that has it what it takes to produce 9 wins next year. Meaning that 3 years later, we are still at or below where we ran off Mack. Nobody would've agreed to that nonsense if we knew the results. That's an absolute failure and unacceptable. $15 million spent on no progress in the wins column from 2013...no thanks.

    That being said, I'm still behind our team every game we play and hope Strong finishes 2015 with a flurry of wins.
     
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  20. StructureDude

    StructureDude 100+ Posts

    Timing is a funny thing. If UT had 3 cupcake OOC games this year I'd say chances are good that they're sitting at 3-2 with a blowout loss and a close loss to Okie State. Would that mean they are a better team than what they are? Not likely. Would they really be competing for anything other than a crappy bowl game? Not likely. I'm hoping that the powers that be can see that when they are evaluating the coaching situation at the end of the year. I also hope that these boys start to turn the corner and show positive signs of improvement. If...IF...the game against Tech doesn't show a much improved team then I will definitely begin to doubt. I'm willing to give a mulligan against Baylor this year cause those thugs are probably gonna be shanking people on the bottom of the pile.
     
  21. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    There is some merit to what you're saying. The young players should have had a few cupcakes as success does have its benefits in regards to mindset. 4 heart-wrenching losses in 5 games can really weigh on new starters to the college game. I always believed there was a good reason to start with a cupcake and get the team acclimated.

    The evaluation for the future really starts this week. We were just embarrassed in front of the country and recruits...and now face our hated rival.

    How does Strong do in preparing his team for this situation? He told us Monday this is the week it all comes together. What would a 44-17 beatdown by OU signal? Another befuddled coaching job and massive failure to compete.

    As for getting another chance...the real test of Strong's worthiness to continue in my eyes comes down to KSU, ISU, KU, WVU, and Texas Tech. So far those teams are 12-10 with a lot of easy opponent wins. I expect a minimum of 4 wins there or it's regression.

    Even if we go 3-2 in that stretch, plus lose to TCU, OU, OSU, and Baylor...that's 3-6 in conference. The year before we went 5-4. So how is a 2-game slide in conference acceptable. That doesn't even factor in the tougher OOC schedule.

    Without a minimum of 4 wins over the next 7 games, I want no part of keeping a coach who regressed from 6-7 to 4-8 overall. Even changing the two ranked OOC losses to cupcake wins would still amount to 6-6 and no progress. Not to mention, we will have went from 5-4 to 3-6 in conference.

    Bring me 5-7 and real progress Chucky Strong, or bring me your resignation. :smile1:
     
  22. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    This is one of the things that really makes me wonder. We came out the gate with a tough team and had only 1 cupcake that played pretty tough since. Had we started slow and got something going where would we be now idk a bunch of coulda woulda shoulda I guess oh well
     
  23. shaggy refuge

    shaggy refuge 500+ Posts

    We'll be lucky to beat ISU and that will be with pay back help from the refs.
     
  24. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    The 2014 beatdowns by better teams was one level of failure. Sure they were brutal but we saw the losses coming for the most part. But Strong at least responded and beat the conference also-rans.

    Texas should never have a losing Big 12 record and CS upheld that at 5-4. All the while indicating 2015 held bigger promise with more practice time and new recruits.

    Then the 2015 beatdowns came and it really embarrassed and shocked us. After OU, Charlie will be back where he was last year facing the also-rans. If he can't duplicate solid success again at that lower level, his worst nightmares will come true.

    It's one thing losing bad to ND and TCU. It's a whole other level of clusterf*ck if ISU knocks us off, or Tech blows us away at home. A couple of dismal losses to the mid-level teams added to the blowouts by the big dogs...hard to survive that kind of decline and level of suck.

    I mean really, if we go 3-4 the rest of the way, and finish 3-6 in conference, there is zero cause to allow a third try. There should never be 6 or 7 Big 12 teams better than the University of Texas. On a second season with no season crippling injuries (like QB or a rash of others), that is 100% unacceptable.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  25. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I guess we now have evidence for future review that when hiring a new HC that the persona of the guy his as important as his X's and O's.

    Strong is a role model type man who knows the game; there should be no question about that. The issues as I see them are:
    • Inability to hire a staff that has a proven record of competing on the highest level. Even the biggest Big XII detractors will have to admit that there is a big jump from the American Conference to the Big XII. Watson and Bedford were not qualified coordinators at this level. Everyone told Strong not to hire Watson. Whoever Strong brought in to be DC was recognized as a placeholder only as Strong was going to run the defense. Unfortunately Strong did not realize the time issues of a HC in a Power 5 Conference. He just does not have time to coach and keep control of the program. This shows up on the field as an unprepared team which is magnified by the play in the third quarter when the team has no clue of what is going on and what to do.
    • Inability to take over a team and motivate inherited players. Taking over a team is like trying to change a flat while the car is moving. As much as you want, you just cannot throw everyone out and start over. Strong threw out the players he did not like leaving Texas with probably three years (two and counting) of putrid football. Then you cannot tell the remainder of the holdovers that "if I judge a freshman to be better than you - the freshman plays".
    • No proof that this staff can judge talent. The heralded freshmen DB's have shown no ability to play the position on the competitive level they are playing on for some unknown reason. The best recruit that Strong has produced (Jefferson) is very talented, but for whatever reason (lack of proper coaching, inability to comprehend?) he does not drop back into coverage. That hole that is always present in the zone defenses is Jefferson's responsibility unless he is blitzing - which then throws the responsibility back to the DB's and - see above. The O line issues are embarrassing and only indicate that what ever Wickline ends up costing Texas - it will not be money well spent.
    • The team is undisciplined as evidenced by the penalties, unpreparedness, and team snipping (see the second bullet point).
    This year is a complete wash out. Any reasonable observation is 5 wins max by beating both Kansas schools, Tech and WVA. It is hard to say a third year is warranted, but he needs to give Texas a reason for a third year. Otherwise 2016 will be a repeat of 2015 which is a repeat of 2014. Then 2017 and probably 2018 will be wash out's no matter who is brought in.

    After the ou game the season will be half over so the freshmen cannot be considered inexperienced. It is going to come down to if not beating ou being in the game at the end of the game and being competitive against Baylor (which is a sad situation).

     
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    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  26. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Well said. I think most willing to give him a year by default are assuming "what can it hurt giving another chance?"

    The reality is it can hurt tremendously if he's the 7-11 lame duck he's showing so far. It will damage recruiting. It can postpone success even further for the next guy. There's a ton even a 7-win 2016 season can do to damage this program into the future. We need to know he can get this team at or above where he started (8-5) in 2016.

    As said, it's now on Strong over the final 7 games to prove that he deserves another year. 4-8 would be the worst winning percentage since 1956. Only two other Texas teams in 59 seasons topped at 4 wins (both lost one less). Were there not countless bigger hurdles overcome in the last 59 years than what Strong is managing now?

    Bottom line, CS has 7 games (and a softer schedule) to show cause for putting our faith in him going forward. The days of blind faith in empty promises are over. Prove it.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
  27. dukesteer

    dukesteer 5,000+ Posts

    "This year is a complete wash out. Any reasonable observation is 5 wins max by beating both Kansas schools, Tech and WVA. I is hard to say a third year is warranted, but he needs to give Texas a reason for a third year. Otherwise 2016 will be a repeat of 2015 which is a repeat of 2014. Then 2017 and probably 2018 will be wash out's no matter who is brought in."

    Boy do I agree. Many of you are saying that a coach, any coach, should be given at least three years. I absolutely agreed with that opinion in January of 2014. But my perspective was developed in a vacuum. In other words, I had no basis to form an opinion about this coach. Now I do.

    A commitment of three years must come with contingencies. If a HC behaves in a manner unbecoming to the university he represents, would the three year rule still apply? Of course not.

    So what happens if the performance of the team fails to reach even a minimally acceptable level? Do we hold fast to the predetermined commitment?

    I submit to anyone reading this post that the level of performance we have seen over the initial 17 games in this coach's tenure not only does not meet a minimal level of performance for this university but that, arguably, it fails to meet a minimum level of performance for virtually "any" FBS program with the roster that was inherited. (I know that by adding the "roster" caveat, I have reopened that can of worms. But did we have a roster more devoid of talent than what UTEP or New Mexico or any one of another 25 or so teams had? I doubt it.)

    To take the stance that Charlie Strong deserves three years -- no matter what we see on the field, is a position I could not rationally defend.

    If Texas beats OU or Baylor (yes, "defeats") and also wins 3 of the remaining five games, than I would -- with some reservation -- be willing to roll the dice on a third year. Or, even if we lose to both OU & Baylor but we not embarrassed, then won four of the other five, again, I could concede that a case could be made for a third year.

    But if we defeat neither Baylor nor OU, are blown out by either one, are blown out by any other team on our schedule and cannot win at least 5 games, then to prolong the inevitable would only delay the recovery process for the next head coach.

    Quite frankly, I believe that this train has already left the station.
     
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  28. StructureDude

    StructureDude 100+ Posts

    As much as I'm hoping Coach Strong gets it turned around, if the powers that be decide to go with the nuclear option then I think an important variable is who can Texas get to come here. I think some folks still have the attitude that Texas can have whoever they want. That wasn't true 2 years ago and definitely won't be true after dumping Coach Strong after 2 years. Only time will tell, but if it's going to happen there better be a clear consensus of "this is THE guy for Texas" or I think it would be better to let Charlie hit it another year. I'm not in love with the Mark Cubanesque "keep the powder dry" approach, but getting trigger happy and cutting Strong loose without THE right man lined up behind him could make things much much worse in the long run.
     
  29. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Mack succeeded greatly and then flamed out with age...happens to many great coaches. That didn't lower the profile of Texas' coaching opportunity.

    If Strong (who never coached a top level college program) bombs in 2 years, I can't see that scaring off any highly talented coaches seeking a high profile job like Texas either.

    Just because Strong is taking us to a new low, doesn't mean highly confident, good coaches will fear the opportunity or downgrade the profile of the position.

    I guarantee you a guy like Harbaugh didn't care one bit what the guy in front of him did or the declined state Michigan football has been in. He knew he could out-recruit and out-coach his predecessor from Day One. He also knew the spoils would be enormous once he succeeds.

    The best of the best don't fear the mistakes made by the failure before them. Most believe 100% that they can run circles around that guy and will succeed with his same opportunity. It's all about the organization they're joining and the potential once they turn it around.

    That being said, Texas is still the #1 revenue generating program in all of college football. The coach who inherits that and brings back success knows he will reap the spoils of the media, fans, and salary at an unprecedented level. It's not about the 'what is' of the current football team that attracts great coaches, it's about 'what will be' once they succeed.
     
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  30. StructureDude

    StructureDude 100+ Posts

    I agree. I think I was trying to get more to the issue of whether it may start to be a turn off to some coaches to go to a university where the last guy got canned after two years and the expectations are enormous. Then again, the guy who would embrace that opportunity would probably be the kind of guy they want.

    Also, I don't think that they should settle for the 3rd or 4th choice for a new HC and hope for the best. If the #1 or #2 guy doesn't want the job, I would rather have Coach Strong another year and make sure his successor is not just a temporary solution. I believe there's a song with the lyrics "you're not the best, but you're the best that I could do". That should never be acceptable at UT.
     

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