Executive Orders

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by theiioftx, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    I do not disagree with anything you said, but I do believe HRC's position was to hold manufacturers responsible anytime there was a murder.
     
  2. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Really? I don't follow HRC but I'd like to see the quote you are translating that from. If she does, that's a pretty radical position. I haven't read any quotes from this years presidential candidates that are that radical.
     
  3. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Nobody knows what she'd actually do, but if you take her at her word (which admittedly is pretty worthless), that's not the case.
     
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  4. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    You might assume that I'm always OK with lawsuits, but I wouldn't support this. If the Second Amendment is supposed to empower the people to defend themselves against a tyrannical government, then law-abiding people should be able to own however many guns they want. Furthermore, I don't think the government (at least not the feds) has a right to know who owns a lot of guns, and I don't think gun manufactures or sellers should have a duty (whether by regulation or by tort liability) to tell them.

    It's a little bit like the Dram Shop Act case (suing the seller who gives the drunk his booze). As the lawyer, you have a duty to sue everybody you can build a case against, and yes, you're going to focus on the deep pockets, but it's going to be tough to make that work. Obviously, the shooter is going to be judgment proof 999/1000 times. The person who gave him the weapon may have some liability insurance, which helps. In most cases, getting at the gun manufacturer is going to be very tough.

    You might get a multi-million dollar verdict, but there's a good chance, the jury will apportion 90 percent of the fault on the shooter and nominal amounts on the seller and manufacturer. Very tough to make this kind of case work.
     
  5. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

  6. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    so she is going to sue HP or Dell for using their servers illegally? Why isn't she getting treated at least as stringently as Gen Petraeus for showing classified material to her mistress?
     
  7. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Take a look at the quote in question - "And it [Clinton's plan] will call for repealing the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, in order to make sure dealers and manufacturers are held accountable for negligence when crimes are committed with products they've sold."

    A few problems with that quote. First, those are ABC News' words, not HRC's. That's the news agency's characterization of her plan.

    Second, it's false. Repealing PLCAA wouldn't "make sure" of anything. States would have to recognize the cause of action against the gun manufacturer. Though some likely would, most would not. In fact, many states (including Texas) already have a ban on such lawsuits.

    Third, if the lawsuits are negligence actions, that goes against the claim that manufacturers would be getting sued for no reason other than making the gun someone happens to use in a criminal act. The plaintiff would have to prove that the gun manufacturer committed some act or omission that an ordinarily prudent gun manufacturer would not have committed and that such act or omission was a proximate cause of the plaintiff's injury. You'd have to identify a specific screw-up on their part that would have to be supported by expert testimony.

    Even if you can identify a specific screw-up, proving that the gun manufacturer's screw-up was a proximate cause of the plaintiff's harm when it's clear that the murderer himself was obviously the primary cause of the plaintiff's harm is going to be very tough. Let's put it this way. I think I'm reasonably good in the courtroom, and unless I had some very, very favorable facts on my side (like if I had documented proof that the manufacturer knowingly sold the gun to a convicted felon), I don't think I could pull it off.
     
  8. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts


    So in Texas, Hillary would be to blame for the Classified documents being on her private, non-secure server, not HP or Dell?
     
  9. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    Thanks for your view and I always appreciate your legal interpretation. However, I did hear her speech and she did state she would go after manufacturers and sellers to stop gun violence.

    It is kind of like a huge tax on bullets. She could care less how she gets the desired effect of full gun control.
     
  10. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Since the discussion involves using guns as a means of deliberately committing a crime (as opposed to accidentally killing people), I'd say it's more on the line of suing Toyota every time someone uses their car to escape a crime scene. Or to run someone over, obviously...
     
  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    And I think that's part of the problem I (and many others) have with HRC beyond just her liberalism. I'm trying to look at what she claims to want to do from a literal standpoint and within the constraints of the Constitution and laws. However, she has made it clear (based on her past behavior) that she thinks nothing of circumventing and ignoring the laws and and normal procedures that govern the country and its people. That makes it very hard to defend her or give her the benefit of the doubt. Trust me. Giving her any kind of defense is like chewing on sand. Believe it or not, it's easier to defend Obama than it is to defend HRC.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2015

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