Does Strong Own Year 3

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by The Apache, Jan 21, 2016.

  1. Denmark

    Denmark 500+ Posts

    I have backed giving Charlie time, however, I feel it will take 9 wins for me to stay 100% committed, although I won't totally give up on him if we win 8. Anything less and he needs to go.
     
  2. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I think he owns showing a clear level of improvement, a team that does not quit, a team that does not implode and coaching decisions that make sense. Wins? It's hard for me to say. We could have had at least two more wins in 2015 without the catastrophic special teams play. So I would say eight wins (5 from 2015 + 2 "SHOULD'VES" from 2015 + 1 to grow on ) at least with "QUALITY" losses, meaning the other team knew they were in a battle the whole way.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
  3. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    Since people claim we should have easily won 7 or 8 had the ball not bounced the wrong way ( Cal, OSU, and Tech should have been wins ) in 2015, we should win 9 in 2016; if we have marked improvement. We need to spank all teams not in the top 25, beat teams not in the top 15, and play top 15 teams tough and upset a couple of them (if we play more than three). We need to be ranked top 20-25 at season's end and be in a bowl game after Christmas. 9 wins minimum. If we don't do at least that, its time to go get Herman or someone else before Aggy gets them.
     
  4. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    Well, I said COULD have, not "..should have easily won..." Those two special teams failures would have given us a chance to close the games out. I'm saying through either better luck or just a tightened up ship the team can win those types of games. And if so then he gets the benefit of the doubt for another year. Further head-scratchers and chaos on the sidelines would indicate no growth from the staff.

    Remember, we changed the staff on offense. Those failures were in special teams. They are counting on "organic" growth. Then there's the defense. Strong believes in Bedford. He also believed in Watson. That's all coaching judgment and if the defense fails again then it's not on Bedford, it's on Strong and that would be it in my view.
     
  5. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Good grief, some of the posts remind me of texags through the years. "Wait till next year..we will have a team that fights hard and doesn't quit.. bad breaks.. bad refs...gonna win 8 or 9 games sometime .....ad nauseum.
    This is the University of Texas, no excuses. Strong owned everything when took the head coaching job, including the results. Probably the worst results by the worst head coach in the history of Texas football. Should have been terminated at the end of last year.
    He owns kicking off both halves against UCLA, he owns 59 yards of offense in a bowl game, he owns the numerous blowouts, he owns coaching staff hires and he owns the unacceptable two year Texas record of 11-14. 11-14, he owns it.
     
  6. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    I get it. When you have seen enough, you have seen enough. I got to this point with Mack at some point too. But the fact is Strong is here for 2016 so the book is not over on Strong's tenure at Texas yet.
    Its only year 3 for him, NSD is tomorrow and it looks like we're going to get a haul. The fact is the guy can recruit. Recruits know which way the wind is blowing and talent = wins.

    Hopefully he turns your frown upside down this year in which case you will just have to eat a lot of crow.
     
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  7. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    I will gladly take that upside down frown and eat that bird.:smile1:
     
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  8. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    Of course, the horrible officiating in the OK State game didn't happen right? And the special teams failure by Nick Rose and the punter were Charlie's fault right?

    It's just a way of looking at the year and building a scenario using 2015 as a baseline that would result in his not being fired next year.

    If you believe the team he inherited was a winner then I think you are mistaken. Start with the quarterback situation. Watson was tossed over-board in part because of his choice of Swoopes but in hind-sight I think we see that Heard wasn't necessarily ready. Was it the offense? Was it too optimistic to assume either Heard or Swoopes could absorb wholesale changes in the off-season?

    Wickline may have been a problem because of the lawsuit. Was that Charlie's fault? Were there any lawyers advising him when he hired Wickline? Should Patterson have settled the lawsuit and possibly headed off Wickline's apparent attitude problems (from what I read).

    In the end, what I said is that there is a clear path for Charlie and if it doesn't happen then he needs to go. This is not a source of pride, a moral victory or a we just ran out of time discussion. It's just a discussion of a few needed breaks here and there that would indicate he is closer than would justify the manner in which you stated your opinion.

    But that's just my opinion. He's here and if things don't clearly rise to a level of game in and game out competence then I'd say he's gone.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  9. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Speaking of recruits, Kyle Porter just committed.
    Hopefully this windfall is the start of a landslide of windfalls over the next 24 hours.
    :hookem::hookem::hookem:
     
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  10. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    You are what your record says you are. The rest is just excuses. The "we just needed a few extra close breaks" argument can also be applied to reversing a few close breaks that went in our favor.

    Bottom line, is a coach is responsible for the results from kickoff to final whistle. And 9 of 25 (36%) games have been 18+ points losses.

    That being said, the past is the past and Strong received his mulligans for the first two seasons shaping his program.

    3 years in and no excuses will justify another failed season...it's time for solid and respectable on the field results. Either way it will be owned 100%.
     
  11. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    The team and it's 5 NFL draft picks were good enough to go 8-5. Choosing Watson that tried to run a stupid, failure pro style offense that didnt even put up that many points with Bridgewater was on Strong. Not having a special teams coach and benching Daje which played a big factor in the 2014 OU loss was on Strong. Also, Watson draining the clock in the second half of that 2014 OU loss was on Watson. Yes, more competent coaching could have got us to 8-5 the past two seasons. The coaches did not get the most out of our team the past two seasons save a couple of games.

    As many pointed out above, year 3 will be the deciding year. It's make or break because we've seen nothing to demonstrate superior coaching in back to back 7 loss seasons. However, I am hopeful things will be better in 2016 and we have a good signing day tomorrow .
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  12. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    In 2015, nothing went in our favor that was on the level of the Cal/OSU special teams errors or the OSU officiating screwjob. Plenty of other games from past years, sure, - example we were lucky as hell to beat Iowa State in 2013 after the refs determined it was inconclusive if Bergeron fumbled, or 2010 when Nebraska dropped multiple TD passes against us.
     
  13. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    H-Town, I agree with everything you just said except for the below statement.

    Daje getting benched was on Daje. Just like how Daje getting benched by Mack, all those times, was on Daje. I don't see how Daje being a serial f**k-up is on Strong.
     
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  14. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    I was at that 2010 Nebraska game and watched multiple dropped touchdown passes by Texas as well. I am assuming 2 dropped touchdown passes can be referred to as multiple by Texas. The terrible punt idea by Texas seemed to be the only thing Nebraska was able to capitalize on all day.
    We had two dropped TD passes and were inside the Nebraska ten yard line at the end of the game, but instead of sticking it in the end zone , we took a knee and ran out the clock. The game was not as close as the score, we whipped Nebraska. We also suffered a lot of injuries in that game.

    Also, I cant imagine how many games aggy would have won had it not been for the refs.
     
  15. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    Well, my opinion is that Texas needs to have a big day tomorrow, fully install the offense, find a quarterback, win eight games (and beat OU), be competitive in all the losses and show signs of full upward tragectory.

    The rehash of the past was only a drill-down to the previous step and hopefully it's on the way up and not down. It might be easier just to say he needs to win ten games period without any discussion on how he might get from where he was to the ten wins. That's a bottom-line view and I'm not sure it's the best way to decide things but I get that point of view.
     
  16. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Well so far Coach Strong has come through on the good signing day part! Im starting to feel like Charlie may just come through in 2016 on the field! :hookem:
     
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  17. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    A few of these guys could fill immediate needs.
    I have not been this excited about recruiting since, well, last year!

    This defense could be illegal by 2017.
     
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  18. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    It's interesting to have this argument about the hand Charlie inherited. Gerry Hamilton just said that offensive line has been a position of need for Texas for the last two or three years. You can easily say the same things about quarterback.

    Just sayin'.
     
  19. harry_horns

    harry_horns 250+ Posts

    It'll be interesting to see what people look back to as the turning point if Texas has success next year, keeps Strong, and then starts winning a lot of games consistently down the road. A lot of people might say "it was when we beat playoff team OU" or "it's when we closed the season beating a talented Baylor squad in their house when we were playing for nothing but pride." But it could also be the day, 2/3/2016, not the class, but this day.

    Think about it, when Mack won in 2005, a lot of people went back to the 2002 recruiting class with VY and Blalock and co. and thought "wow, what a class, they really came around full circle." But from my knowledge (so I may be wrong, and feel free to correct me if so), I think many of those guys committed as the recruiting process went along.

    This was a great class, with plenty of elite players that had committed over time. However, today was simply magical, and what solidified all of the recruiting for the 16 class.

    Hopefully Strong can turn it around and own many more years after year 3. The players love him, and the fan base has for the most part really rallied around him (which is more than people can say about aggy and coach Sumlin right now). Hopefully, whenever Charlie is owning a winning season down the road, he can say "It was 2/3/16 when we knew the program had turned around, and we stuck a fork in aggy and every other Texas and Big 12 school." :hookem:
     
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  20. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Amor Fati

    Straight up nasty.
     
  21. OldHippie

    OldHippie 2,500+ Posts

    If the Horns turn it around in next year, I would put my money on the the hiring of Sterlin Gilbert and the offensive production being a big part of it. Upgrading the defensive speed and play makers is important, but in my opinion, dependable offensive production is the bigger problem at the moment.
     
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  22. jayakris

    jayakris 2,500+ Posts

    Charlie owns 100% of everything in year 3. He hasn't blamed anybody for all that has happened the last 2 years. Ask him and he will say he owns it all. So why are we even discussing it?

    He has done his job in picking the players he wants and there is depth and talent in the team now. We will win in 2016, and we will win at least 9 games. That's all there is to it. And what is going to happen from 2017 onward will be worth the wait.
     
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  23. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I think the reason to discuss it besides the fact that that is what we do (!) is that (at least in my view) it is a way of determining if he is down to his last chance. This is crucial in order for the fan base to have something to believe in which in turn will affect whether they boo at home games next year or will have the patience and sophistication to support a program that is still under construction (a rebuild if you will).

    I think the positives of the past Wednesday were almost better than the OU victory. If you think about it, the program is brimming with energy, confidence and optimism. But we know most of these recruits aren't even on campus yet. Last years recruits, are just that, last years recruits meaning they too are very young. So, do we give Charlie more time with the inevitable hiccups that will occur with youth or is there a line in the sand next Fall that cannot be negotiated by the feelings about the program that exist at this very moment.

    If Charlie did not own the first two years because of "the hand he was dealt" then he has time. If he owned it from day one then he's on very thin ice.
     
  24. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Losing 24-0 to Iowa State was not inevitable. Mackovic once said "we had to lose to rice sometime" after losing to rice. No, we did not.

    If a coach cannot get us to 8-9 wins in year 3, he is not the coach for us. Harbaugh went 10-3 year one and had the 4th overall rated recruiting class this year. In reality, we should be shooting for that in year 3 and not just "seeing some progress". It doesn't take 4 years to get to 7-6. Charlie Strong did not inherit Shawn Watson. If Charlie hires a competent offensive staff year one, he goes at least 8-5 the last two years and this thread does not even exist.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  25. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    That's fine; I don't have your intensity about it for some reason. That's a t-shirt fan for you I guess (don't ban me!). I just think the quarterback situation was pretty bad and that maybe Watson wasn't as bad as it seems because of what he had to work with. Wickline was another issue because of the lawsuit (in my view). Maybe it created a bunch of friction behind closed doors. I wasn't there so I can't really say.

    Freshmen are freshmen. I don't know what happened in Iowa. I also don't know what happened in Dallas. Both games defy comprehension to me. That is the inconsistency that is puzzling. The team sold out for OU (like what Mack said about A&M: "The team we see on the field is never the one we see on film" meaning they rise to the occasion then fall back to their normal state). It may be that these young men were over-confident against Iowa State and that has been a problem at UT in my view. They just weren't ready.

    Anyway, we'll see what happens.

    And I hear you about Harbaugh. I think he is a better coach than Charlie. Period. I don't know anything about the roster he inherited or if his schedule was tougher than UT's. I haven't analyzed it. But I'll take your word on it.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  26. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    I still think Year 1 was really Year 0 (due to suspensions, etc.). So, the upcoming season is Year 2 and we should see substantial improvement (8 wins) from Year 1 or 0. The year after is the big win season that people are expecting.
     
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  27. jayakris

    jayakris 2,500+ Posts

    For me it is pretty clear. If he doesn't win at least 8 games, he doesn't stay for a 4th year and has to be fired.

    I am the biggest Charlie supporter out there, but any less than 8 wins with the talent he has with him (even if young) will squarely be due to coaching and game-management issues, and will indicate that he probably doesn't have it in him.

    The only way I would agree to keeping him without 8 wins, is if we start very badly (like say 2-5) but finish with no more than 1 loss in the final 6 games. Otherwise 8 wins is a minimum. Something extremely unfortunate, like say both his first and second QBs going down to injuries and causing 3-4 extra losses due to just that, perhaps could be considered as another extenuating circumstance.

    But I am so convinced of Charlie's abilities that I have no doubt about his winning a minimum 8 this year. Just mark my words and make me shave my mustache at the end of the year if he hasn't done that and gets fired (which he will have to).
     
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  28. Godz40acres

    Godz40acres Happy Feller

    Not really a good look for ya, professor.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. jayakris

    jayakris 2,500+ Posts

    Haha. That is some funny s&*t.
    But I was smart about it. I don't even have a mustache :smile1:
     
  30. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    Well, part of my analysis for the number of wins we should expect next year, such that it is/was, included not missing critical extra points or dropping punts; however, we see this little nugget from the DMN website today:


    Special teams

    There is one question that sticks out when looking at the Longhorns' roster - who is going to be their kicker? Texas lost senior kickers Nick Rose and Nick Jordan. The Longhorns have two freshman place kickers on their roster - Jon Coppens and Evan Moore - both have no game experience. It's difficult to justify recruiting a kicker to a recruiting class but Texas will need to address its kicking issues in 2016. Rose wasn't perfect during his career as the Longhorns' place kicker but they'll miss him as they search for a reliable kicker.
     
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