Augie on B&E this morning (football related)

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Detective Shilala, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    They had Augie on 104.9 this morning and the subject turned to football, and ostensibly Coach Strong (and Shaka for that matter).
    Augie is a fan. One thing he talked about was that Charlie values "process over results".
    In any line of work, this is important. If you value results over the process, any success you have will be fleeting, and nothing resonates. (my words).
    Augie talked about how the programs that Strong and Smart are building reflect their values and are very cohesive.
    He went further to say that Strong is going about it with "maturity" and that "Instant gratification is for 5 year olds"

    Anyway, It was a perspective from a coach with 50+ years of experience around winning programs.
    Sure its frustrating to go 5 and 7, but like Augie, I have a feeling our patience will pay off.
     
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  2. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin

    Good points.
     
  3. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    When he mentioned maturity and instant gratification, I immediately thought about year 1 and all of the suspensions and expulsions. A lot of people don't appreciate what Charlie did there, but I for one am glad he did not waver from his code. He knew it was going to make the road harder to travel, but he did it anyway because anything else would have been selling out.
    And can you imagine the pressures and frustrations that Strong faces on any given day? I think back to any of the close losses that happened last year or the day Sterling Gilbert said no and flew back to Tulsa. Not to mention the negative whispers around belmont and the donors. If I was Strong I would have started compromising a long time ago.
    Instead, the guy says f**k it, doubles down, ups and sells the program to a bunch of awesome kids and gets us a top 10 class. The guy is a genuine badass.
     
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  4. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Process and results don't have to be mutually exclusive. Shaka and other transitioning football coaches have proven that. By results I don't necessarily mean wins as much as improvement and competing at a higher level as your stint progresses. Coaching up your current team is part of the job.

    The process includes instilling a toughness/determination in your team despite remaining talent deficiencies. Strong has done well with certain aspects of the process. Still doesn't excuse warm body performances like Iowa St. and countless blowouts.
     
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  5. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    I agree, they are not mutually exclusive.
    But process drives results. You don't tell your employees (athletes) as a boss or coach "Just go get X many wins".
    Its good to have the goal, BUT if they don't already have the habits you want or don't understand how you expect to get there, its meaningless. And if they do find success without a roadmap, congratulations. But don't expect it to "take".
    So its especially true if you have bunch of new people on the job (freshmen and RS Freshmen, etc).

    Also if we are to compare what Shaka is doing in BB or Harbaugh is doing at Michigan, its hard because the circumstances are different. It also takes time. A few years ago many people would have looked at results and thought Sumlin had it right at aggy, but he hasn't honored process and nothing has "taken". He had lightning in a bottle who was also a shitbird. Congrats on being 'Bama that one time. Enjoy that team of shitbirds that you now have!

    I am not saying that this explains or excuses Iowa St and TCU last year, or how we never managed to string more than 2 wins in a row together last year. Very frustrating indeed.
    My hope is that the emphasis on process will, pay dividends this year.
     
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  6. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Mine too, because if it doesn't we are going to be starting all over with a whole new process to learn.
     
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  7. WJHorn

    WJHorn 25+ Posts

    Exactly. I am rooting for Charlie and like the way he goes about his business, but there need to be tangible signs of improvement starting this fall. And if I were Charlie, I'd be careful about taking advice on priorities from Augie. His "process" of refusing to hire a competent hitting coach has almost used up the considerable amount of goodwill that he accumulated from winning two national titles. Every coach at the University of Texas will ultimately be judged on results - just ask Mack Brown.
     
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  8. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    8-5 playing for a conference championship sounds like the good ole days........
     
  9. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    Processes are fine, but when you are paying out the nose for tickets, and the coach is getting $5 million a year and his assistants are making $150-900 thousand; your process better not take too dang long. Year 3 better show some serious progress within the process.......or the University needs to find a new processor.
     
  10. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Hah, This is exactly why its a good thing that we fans don't have our finger on the eject button. Mack probably would have been fired as early as 2003.
    As fans we can only see results, we don't see the process, AND we feel like our time and $ invested entitle us to results right now.
    And to be fair, It kind of does. Its the free market after all and if your team sucks consistently, you are free to look for a new team or withhold your time and $. (But then we wouldn't be fans would we...)
     
  11. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    Thus I keep shelling out $$$$ for my tickets like many others, but many of us DO see the process, and want to see the PROGRESS as well. There is no reason there shouldn't be progress throughout the process unless there is something a foul within the process.
     
  12. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    What is Coach Strong's "process" and how did Shawn Watson and his other previous offensive hires fall into this nebulous process?

    Way too much emphasis on ambiguous "process" and "culture." The more improtant things are recruiting and schemes. Coach Strong has done well on recruiting. What counts now is schemes/playcalling. Hopefully there has been an upgrade offensively witb Gilbet. Defensively, hopefully the issue was inexperience last year.

    There is a third "consistently ready to play" factor. Maybe this is where "culture and process" comes into play. Not having the team consistently ready to play was Mack's greatest weakness. Based on the blowouts, Strong has not done well in that area either. Maybe we will see it this year. We will still need improvement to the play calling/schemes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  13. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    hTown,
    In general I agree the process seems ambiguous to us, but as fans we are not immersed in it, and not in the locker room.
    But from a good boss, or coach's standpoint it can not be overemphasized. It may be ambiguous for us, but don't you think Saban has a process? Can you think of one good coach who does not have an apparent process they value?
    And I admit I am operating on blind faith, but I also think the signs are there with Charlie if you look.
    • Recruiting - Seems like Charlie very much has a process he honors, to hell with everyone else.
    • As far as culture goes, nothing ambiguous about the core values and and I am sure the dismissed players agree.
    • Talent - seems like he has a type of athlete that he likes.
    • Defense - I think the guy knows what he wants and how to go about getting it
    Not to say he has not made mistakes as Watson was a huge setback which you were right about from the very start.
    But respectfully, to say "Way too much emphasis on ambiguous "process"" sounds silly. Especially coming from a fan standpoint. Of course its ambiguous for us. But frankly its not for us and we do not matter
     
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  14. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    ^ That's fair.
     
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  15. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    Please explain how Mack Brown in 2003 compares to Charlie Strong today?


    Mack had won 3-4 bowl games played in two conference championship games was consistently recruiting top 10 or top 5 classes, had studs like DJ, Cedric Benson, Mike Williams, Chance Mock, Vince Young was coming to the stage.... to name a few, no way in hell that Mack would have been fired in 2003 not even a moron would have thought that.....not to mention that the conference in 2003 was 10x as tough as the Big XII is today.....OU recent National Champion, Nebraska just played for one and we just had played for the conference title a year prior and just beat a highly rated Nick Saben coached LSU team and were winnning 10 games a year?

    Not even a close comparison, matter of fact a poor comparison!
     
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  16. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    DS and Majorapplewhites actually both make correct points.

    There were indeed a significant numbers of fans that wanted Mack fired in 03. Some popped back up on here and said they stopped buying tickets after the 03 Arkansas game (ignoring what a dumb decision that was or how it is even dumber to admit that). I may generally be on the more critical end, but I am still buying tickets again for the home games and OU as I am still holding out hope Charlie turns it around this year and in general. Anyway, point is, yes there were fans that wanted to fire him. I do not think they were in the majority. I think they were ridiculous.

    Now major makes a correct point that the results of Charlie's first two years are terrible and not comparable. We went 10-3 in 2003. If we go 5-7 again next year, that is not the same as 10-3. People can talk about a bad situation inherited, but it was not so bad that 3 years of 7 loss seasons shouldn't absolutely end in a firing. (Note this is us hypothetically going 5-7, I expect we should absolutely be better next year and as I said earlier, bought tickets.) If we go somewhere between 7-6 and 8-5 it's up for debate. 9-4 or better it's an easy "retain" and anyone wanting to fire is ridiculous. However, i would say anyone wanting to retain after a third 7 or more loss season would fall into the ridiculous catagory as well.
     
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  17. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    An interesting point on Shaka. I know what kind of system he wants to run (Havoc/run and shoot). It's not really the system our players were recruited for (barnes defense). I predicted after the a&m loss that eventually our very talented players would adjust to the system and win but this year would probably be a wash. Our players have adjusted to the system, have started competing, and hopefully I am wrong about the wash part when the postseason happens.

    The problem with Strong is, in 2 years, we have not seen any consistent improvement and I am not entirely sure what his system is. Now maybe my praise of Shaka is premature, but he seems to have us consistently competing already and we just have not seen that from Strong yet.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016
  18. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Fair points, and thanks, in no way was I trying to compare Mack 203 to Strong 2015.
    More of a point about fandom.

    And yes as far as game planning goes, it does seem like we are searching for an identity. So in this respect, I would say Strong has not done well where "process" is concerned.
    I think he knows what he is doing on defense. I am actually still really concerned about the offense though. I have seen too many coordinator changes that did not work out and know that its not always just a matter of plugging in a new OC and system and watch the offense go...
    Hope it works that way, like it did for TCU but that is the exception.
     
  19. NBHorn7

    NBHorn7 Pimp Daddy

    If we could get a Boykin at quarterback I bet it could go like TCU's.

    That's the key, we have most of the other parts, except for the O-line and that's getting there.

    They didn't go till he developed like he did. That's the X-factor, till a competent quarterback develops for Texas, the offense will have a hard time being consistently good.

    This part of the "process" has been a problem for a long time.
     
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  20. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 5,000+ Posts

    FIFY
     
  21. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    Maybe this is wishful thinking, but Swoopes reminds me of Boykin, has the arm and the ability to move around......counter point....Boykin had a couple of studs that made him look real good at wideout and RB...I know we have the RB, not sure about the WR.
     
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  22. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    I wouldn't be too sold on Strong having the Defense, the last two years when the defense performed well, they did it in spite of coaching, not to mention upperclassmen.....This year the defense is in for the test of their lives as the only upperclassman is what Poona Ford and maybe a DE or two? Maybe Santos?

    While the offense is a big question mark, the defense when doing well it was more individuals athletic ability than scheme or coaching. Perfect example, was taking Diggs out of the Slot he Senior year, what in the hell were we thinking?
     
  23. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 5,000+ Posts

    He's always reminded me of Cardale Jones of Ohio St..
     
  24. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Yep, maybe a new set of eyes can identify the right offense for a guy like Swoopes, with an unusual (for a QB), if limited, skill set.
    Norvel kind of struck gold with the 18 Wheeler package. Not that it was an every down package. But it its a good example of an offense designed to the strengths (and weaknesses) of a player. And it was good enough to beat Baylor!
     
  25. NBHorn7

    NBHorn7 Pimp Daddy

    Not much about Swoopes reminds me of Boykin. Boykin can scramble and deliver an accurrate pass. He has excellent speed.

    Swoopes is a big more lumbering type, thas has major accurracy problems. That is why he has that 18 wheeler package. It's not called the race car package for a reason.

    Norvell got this idea from the "Belldozer" at OU, he saw it all the time there. Same kind of quarterback, big physical type, that had problems with passing accurracy.

    Boykin kind of makes other players look good too. He got the ball to Doctson, to make those catches. He helped open up the running game for Green, by being a duel threat quarterback on every play.

    Swoopes has his purpose with that 18 wheeler package, but he is not the type of quarterback needed for Gilbert's offense.

    Accurracy is a very large part of the new offence and probably at least, a fairly mobile quarterback. A solid O-line would help too.

    We have all seen Swoopes play a lot of football and he ain't no Boykin.

    Who knows about Heard or any of the other quarterbacks.

    This is the problem we have at present. Somebody has to step up for the offense to be consistantly successful.

     
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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  26. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    Boykin and Swoopes to different types of mobile quarterbacks but Swoopes can move around and has an arm, can someone help him out?

    Well Boykin was not very accurate before Sonny and I never saw Dotson not make a spectacular catch or at least 15 feet up in the air.....I believe your recollection of Boykin is a little off.....Boykin before throwing short dinks and dunks was horrible....Also, and I think this is key, Boykin was able to redshirt a year, Swoopes is entering the season where he should start to really be a leader and a man among boys........again, I may be hoping more than anything else but I just like the kid!!!!
     

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