minimum wage increase

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by huisache, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    the proposal to raise the minimum wage seems fairly reasonable to me considering all the arguments advanced for it but I wonder why we set our sights so low. Why just $15 and hour? Why not $20 or $40 or, better yet, $100 an hour?

    At $100 an hour every worker would get $4,000 a week in wages and that is surely enough to enjoy a good life. If it was mandated at such a rate and workers were paid for 40 weeks (like teachers, people should have three months off every year to pursue, in Dick Cheney's felicitous phrase, "other options.") they would make $160,000 per year, a fair income for sure. A couple could make $320,000 per year and every kid could go to a swell school.

    It would also take a big bite out of the cost of welfare because nobody who worked would be eligible.

    People could afford premiums on health insurance.

    I know some might argue that having a 15x increase in the minimum wage might be a tad difficult for some employers but as Hillary Clinton said about medical costs to some employers when trying to redo the medical system twenty years ago, you can't let something this important be de railed by a bunch of undercapitalized small businesses.

    I think we can do it if we set our minds to it and pull together. We are a nation of optimists and can accomplish anything if we want it bad enough and have the perseverance to make it happen.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Minimum wage jobs are not meant to support a family. If you have a family and a minimum wage job, improve your situation by educating yourself, learning a trade or finding a higher wage job.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  3. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Holey Mole I agree with Husketr.
    If you are still making minimum wage after say 6 mons on the job there
    is something else going on, whether you are routinely late ,a no show or doing a lousy job. Anyone who has dealt with minimum wage employs knows exactly what I am talking about. An employee who shows up on time every time and works hard will not stay at minimum wage long.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    I'm assuming the OP was being sarcastic. By the way, a universal minimum salary is a simpler version of what the OP intends.
     
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  5. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Mc
    You are likely right. With Huis it is always wise to check all angles. Sneaks in clever stuff all the time and the occasional WTF
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

  7. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    I love this idea. But we also need implement a maximum wage. I mean, is it really fair that some people make 100x the minimum wage (or more if you are a CEO!). In fact, why not just have one wage for everyone? Simplifies everything. Furthermore, why not just have one employer for everyone. One wage, one employer.... I like this idea. Surprised no one else has thought of it yet.
     
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  8. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    The universal minimum salary would simply be money printing (debt) by the government paid for either by raising taxes or kicking the can down the road to future generations.

    Raising the minimum wage has the negative consequences of reducing employment, raising prices, and incentivising businesses to substitute technology for labor as the former becomes less costly.

    Either of the two possibilities is more detrimental to labor than helpful. Unfortunately, the trend is for more and more people falling behind economically. There doesn't seem to be a good answer. For many, even a good education isn't enough to do much other than allow them to run in place.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    A good start would be to reduce regulations and barriers to starting a business. Not only would it give individuals the ability to be self-employed, but it would also increase the number of employers and thus increase competition for labor. There has been a war on small businesses for years in America by politicians owned by large corporations. Large corporations love all the regulations because they are the only ones with the resources to comply with them.
     
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  10. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Bingo, we have a winner :bow:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 2,500+ Posts

    No, it wouldn't. To be fair to those on welfare, we'd have to increase the payments to about 75% of minimum wage, i.e. $120k for an individual or $240k for a two-non-worker household. With handouts like that, who would bother taking a minimum-wage job?
     
  12. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Well played, Mr. Swift...
     
  13. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    NJ
    You are 100% correct. It is already happening. Welfare in most state provides enough of a comfortable living for many people who don't feel the need to work when they can live off the rest of us.
    Proof of that is in states where they are denying able bodied people who are not working to get food stamps. The participation rate on SNP is falling.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 2,500+ Posts

    This is why I support requiring work-for-welfare in most cases. Those who are unemployed beyond a short, temporary period should be required to do something -- anything -- that matches their skill set. This can include anything from infrastructure projects, to staffing day-care centers for low-income workers, to picking up trash, to bussing tables at VA hospitals. Some of these would turn into permanent jobs, while others would be transitional.

    There certainly are lots of people who have given up looking for a job because it is easier to collect a welfare check. But I remain convinced that there are just as many if not more people who have given up looking for a job because they are frustrated. They lack the skills to fill current jobs, and they lack the knowledge, drive, and resources to get trained for the jobs that do exist. The government needs to fix those problems instead of simply kicking the can down the road by distributing handouts.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  15. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I am sure you are right but I know we the taxpayer pay for job training programs for large groups of people.
    What I do not know is how may people take advantage of that training.

    I am all for work for welfare especially for non-disabled without children. But even those with children can work if only at a child care center.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    The real minimum wage is always $0/hr.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. HornHuskerDad

    HornHuskerDad 5,000+ Posts

    Not very often that I agree with Seattle Husker, but this time he nailed it.
     
  18. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    I've seen that not be the case in plenty of places, or at least, be technically true but not in a very useful sense. Hey, now that guy makes $0.25 or $0.50 more than minimum after a year, what a huge chance....
     
  19. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I've noticed that to be true as well. Plenty of minimum wage jobs will offer a raise, but it's often nominal. Personally, I'm not a minimum wage hater. I wouldn't do something nutty like making it nationwide $15 requirement. However, I don't think periodic increases to keep up with inflation is a bad thing.
     
  20. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    I have no source on this, but aren't union wages typically tied to minimum wages? So a substantial increase in the federal minimum wage results in a the same percentage increase in union wages? Not that democrats care, but raising the minimum wage as a cascading effect on wages across the board. And that cascading effect will result in jobs being eliminated. I was in LaGuardia airport a few weeks ago. All food and drinks were ordered on an IPAD. When wages become higher that technology, get ready for fewer jobs.
     
  21. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    All wages are indirectly tied to the minimum wage which is exactly why raising the minimum wage is perpetual motion. This has been tried for nearly a century in the US and has never worked.
     
  22. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Well yes raises at a minimum wage level aren't huge but it is after all entry level low skill jobs. How much should a entry level janitor, shelf stocker maid or burger flinger make?
    What also happens is someone who shows up all the time and works hard gets promoted, maybe to crew or shift manager.
    and from there many places offer training for better jobs and or help paying for college classes.
    Anyone who has had to deal with entry level workers knows the value of a reliable employee versus the vast majority who constantly are late or call in sick or hop from low skill job to low skill job.
    So again anyone who is dependable and who works hard will not stay in an entry level job long.
     
  23. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    The minimum wage results is less jobs available overall and also, as an added bonus, keeps low-skilled people from competing with more skilled folks by preventing them from offering their services at a lower rate than minimum wage so that they can GET skilled in the first place.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  24. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    With the nonparticipation rate for employment so low (lowest since the late 70's), no way in hell should we raise the minimum wage. Once we get the non-participation rate very low and get the unemployment in the 4% range, then raise the minimum wage at that point. We need as many people working and raising it now would take the unemployment rate towards the 7% range and keep the non-participation rate very high. It's just common sense. We don't have much of that in Washington right now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  25. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    The minimum wage is no more than price-fixing by the government. When the government sets a maximum price, you will get shortages. When they set a minimum price, you will get excess supply. We are WAY over-supplied on low-skilled workers without jobs right now.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    I agree with this, and with your overall points, but I just think this:

    Is really overestimating the competency and/or effort and/or give-a-**** level of management at most of these places.
     
  27. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    If the minimum wage was eliminated, wages would go up. Of course, this would require enforcement of immigration and child labor laws. Setting a minimum wage above what the market would normally pay results in job losses.
     
  28. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    My wife's sister lives in Mass. She is currently unemployed. That's a frequent situation for her. She'll take a job for a year or two. Then, it seems she 'll get "laid off". I think it must be hard to get fired up there.

    She has turned down at least one job because it paid less than her "benefits". She flew down and stayed with us for a week. Doesn't seemed too concerned, as long as her benefits roll in. She's had a surgery or two on Romney Care during her down cycles. She can cope just fine with no job.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    My brother's best friend is a welder. He routinely gets laid off and loves it. He gets unemployment then does work on the side. As long as there is incentive to not work, people will take advantage of it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Human condition: people ***** about high cost of living and low pay regardless of status.
     
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