Even if true, why was he "a Texas lock from the get-go?" Certainly Hand had to influence any "lock." ] From a difficulty of recruiting standpoint, this is like landing three Tyler Johnsons and an Isaiah Hookfin. Parr, Majors, and Garth were layups. Karic, like Hookfin, was a good recovery for a lower profile player.[/QUOTE]] And so this is terrible? And who determines that any recruit is a "layup?" I think any recruit needs to be recruited. This is nonsensical, at best. If it is not behind a pay-wall, hope fully this will be better sourced and reasoned. But Jackson is not from Texas and was never coming. Byrd is sniffing the DDD Pony stalls. Fatheree had a strong aTm disposions. Wycoff and Miller were open to competition. No mention of the other AZ OT? ? I wonder if Miller might still visit? So Karic, Majors, Hookfin, Garth and Cosmi were well evaluated. No fail there.
Your posts are often difficult to reply to, but I can try This has nothing to do with missing on everyone in this rare stacked in-state 2021 OL class, including two highly ranked double legacies (arguably triple legacies). We should be cleaning up. But we arent. Conner looks like a nice player but he should be the floor for us in this class of OLs, not the ceiling, as it appears he will be. You dont seem to grasp the idea that coming away with none of these players could be sealing Herman's fate at Texas. Hand did not play a hand in the development of Connor Williams I agree that it is easy to see them both getting drafted. But this possibility has not helped us one bit with this current, elite 2021 OL class. Before Connor Williams in 2018, Texas had not has any OL drafted going all the way back to Tony Hills in 2008! The tip top OLs who expect to be playing in the league some day all know this. Even if they did not know it naturally, you can bet competing programs educated them on it. And it clearly has not impressed college level OL coach Blake Brockermeyer. This situation sort of reminds me of Bruce Matthews not letting any of his kids come to Texas to be coached by Brown and McWhorter (and all 3 of his boys ended up playing OL in the NFL) This is a topic that has beaten up plenty over the years and I am not going to rehash that now. For the purposes of what we are discussing here, the point is that the upper echelon OLs want to play in the NFL. Those guys want to go to a school that will get them drafted as high as possible. In that comparison, there is a huge gulf between Alabama and Texas. And so far as winning a NC goes, the more 5-stars and high 4s the better your odds of accomplishing that goal. It's highly unlikely you will ever make the playoffs just signing a bunch of 3-stars year-after-year hoping for their potential being realized. Alabama under Saban has basically become an NFL draft factory. While they have been doing that, the Longhorns were busy tripping over themselves. Alabama's worst season in that span of time when we stunk was 10-3. And they have 4 NCs over the period. This last draft, they had an OT taken at #10 overall In 2019, they had another OL taken at #11 (2 OLs in total drafted) They have produced 4 first round OTs the last decade. They not only churn out NFL talent season after season, they also win games. As currently constructed, they are not easy to compete against even if on the subject of in-state, triple-legacy recruits. And get this, their current OL coach (from 2017 I think) has a checkered past with a long line of former players in trouble with the law and otherwise suspended. You would think that might get the attention of a couple of UT-educated, self-aware parents. But it didnt. Nor did the chance to block for Bijan Robinson in the future. Because you know what else that Bama OL coach has? NFL coaching experience.
Hand might have crushed the Braun recruitment but I'm sure Braun's decline in play is being talked about to incoming OL on how Hand can't develop talent. It is pretty embarrassing that a Freshman AA, 2 time All ACC OL can't even get a mention in any of the All-Big 12 teams. That's a tough objection to overcome.
So we are chasing recruiting trophies? 50% of whom will not play beyond college? Is it not better to better evaluate and develop? But across two or three OL coaches, development did occur. Did 'Bama develop any 3 Star OL in that same period. Remember, Texas has not recruited any 5 Star OL since - what - 2002? So I ask you, who has misconstrued the facts about Herman and Hand's development, then? So you are confirming what I said previously, Texas failed to recruit quality OL after 2008. Thus reaffirming that CW did develop, although admittedly in spite of the coaching regimes. Sorry about Matthews personal problems, but it is merely a bad conjecture to say if they had played at Texas they would not have been drafted. Matthews was not an alumna of Texas and who knows why Texas was his personal Viagra? Here you are drinking the recruiting Kool-Aid. Schools DO NOT get players drafted. PLAYERS get themselves drafted. If a school signs many higher 4 Stars and 5 Stars, unless they regress, they are high draft probabilities. Texas has been in an OL signing drought relative to Alabama, Clemson and probably OSU. Maybe even USC. But so have most other NCAA schools failed in recruiting these prime OL also. True, but as we have seen in Texas' 3 bowl victories, a motivated well coached team can beat an unmotivated mediocrally coached team. Utah had 7 draftees to Texas' 3, for example. So be so kind to explain why any young athlete would otherwise want to attend Alabama? Is it your contention that Texas should rescind its academic breadth and excellence to become another NFL farm team? If the answer is yes, my next question would be are you an alumnus? Football is a very small part of what UT does in Austin, let alone the rest of the UT System.
Exactly how many of the 85 football players or basketball players or baseball or softball or WBB or track team members do you think qualify for general admission?
Well known and relevant. By the way, do you recall the overall all time record of UT vs. Alabama? So as I noted above, they have recruited OL better than Texas for the last ten or probably 15 years. More to the point perhaps, how many were 3 Star recruits they developed? I have no idea. Hello Andre Coleman. Who was trying to recruit Stan Drayton? What happened to Jerry Gray? Saban has NFL coaching experience too. He was an abject failure. Guess what? NFL coaches are in the top pay tie, so any that fall back to the college are by definition NFL failures. Hand, on the other hand, has been on a constantly ascending trajectory. However, Herman, Hand and maybe even Drayton and Coleman are more interested in the life development of young men. They might well take less pleasure and sense of accomplishment in managing grown men in playing a boys game. Should they be faulted for that? So I would posit to you and many others, what is the primary purpose of UT football? And how many coaches actually develop high 4 Star and 5 Star players? Remember, 7 of the 1st Round draft were 3 Star players coming in (evidence of development I would contend) 3 were 5 Stars (yeah, they were good gifted athletes) and the rest were 4 Star recruits. So my contention, when everyone is drinking the 'Bama. Son of Clem and aOSU Kool-Aid, those programs have little hope of prevailing in recruiting. Coaches have to paint the big picture that 95% of the recruits are not going to get drafted, and even if they do, it will not be along career except for very few. And guess what? Football is a boy's game and only played by men when the promise of great lucre is involved. Getting drafted into the NFL and not knowing how to manage money is not a great success in most life strategies. I see a lot of young men and women athletes realizing there is more to life than the limited athletic prowess with which they may have been endowed in their youth. That fades quickly. Texas is not selling the long term outlook well enough even though Herman realizes it is not just a four year relationship. Andre Coleman? Who else has his experience and history at the collegiate level and professional level as a WR coach? Players should be lining up and begging to play for him. Same with Drayton for RB. Herman has a great assistant coaching legacy also. If anything, Texas needs to be more proficient in countering other coaches' bogus claims and promoting themselves better. And they need to sell the University better. And we as a Texas fan base need to quit drinking the opposition's Kool-Aid. The ship has been turned. Now it has to get-up to speed. How easily we forget how deep in the doldrums Texas was before Herman arrived. Not just in recruits and coaching, but within the internal development of the program itself. These ills are not cured overnight or even a few years. It is not a one recruiting class nor an over night thing. Charlie Strong came into the program and marveled at the facilities. Tom Herman came into the program and noted the same wallpaper and locker facilities he had seen 15+ years before. Thank you for your reply, Joe. You are a great contributor here which I never will be.
Good question. 50%? I would submit a better question is how many of them benefit from being exposed to a more rigorous academic experience. I have always maintained that a good college is not about memorizing by rote facts, but by being able to think for oneself how to solve a challenging problem.
Take out the zero and maybe. There will be a few, but I seriously doubt more than 10%. I shall agree that the largest benefit is the ability to matriculate with so many people that your HS couldn't provide. As I used to say in my recruiting letters, every job I ever got was a direct result of my education at The University of Texas. Conversely, I told my children what my dad told me - "I'm going to spend a lot of money so you can get a piece of paper that gets you a job, and enables your employer to spend a lot more money educating you"
He (or maybe it was his dad) actually brought up the idea of taking a RS, which he could have done. GT schemed a somewhat old school run game and he wanted the chance to switch to our power scheme and learn pass pro. But we did not think we had the depth to afford him that luxury. It probably would have been better for him personally if he had.
Ive read that or something similar often from fans over the last decade. How many more decades of these same results are you willing to accept before you concede the point? Yes, they do seem to always have an outlier 3-star Saban identified who turns out successful. But how many Sabans are there out there? He is somewhat unique. And I will concede Herman has been good at it too so far at least. But I still argue you cannot sustain a successful program on this alone. For example, Gary Patterson is sort of a master at this process (certainly better than us). But how many times have his teams actually been close enough to just get a sniff of the CFB playoffs? Once? Matt Rhule may have been even better than Patterson at it, but now we will never know if he could had gotten Baylor in there if he stayed. But probably not You are arguing against yourself here but dont seem to realize it. I think 2013 Darius James was our last 5-star OL. More importantly, how has our OL been performing over this time with all those courageous undersized 3-stars? The answer to that can be found in the fact that you keep bringing up Connor Williams as an example of Hand's good development work. Williams last played in college for the 2017 Texas team. Hand was hired Jan 2018. And, in any event, while Williams and Cosmi are both great stories, they are also outliers. There are outliers in any data stream. A sustainable successful program in any field cannot be built relying solely on data outliers. For example, its why the house always wins in gambling, despite the occasional big individual winner. After starting on the OL in the NFL for ~20 years (which is amazing in and of itself), Bruce Matthews then coached the OL in the NFL. So maybe he knows something about the subject? Or, perhaps you have the better grasp. What do you think? In any event, as a parent, he of course just wanted the best for his children. And it worked as 3 of his sons did make it into the league, with one first round pick. And, if there is one thing we can all agree on, it is that Bruce did not want any of them in our OL program. Pretty embarrassing. These are examples of the sort of stream of consciousness writing I referred to above that cant really be responded to.
The University of Texas has been not meeting expectations as compared to it's self-image and legacy for a very long time. It's that simple. While it is a great university and would be a wonderful experience for any young football player, it's just not in the "buzz" category at the moment. Without dominance or at least the clear indication of great coaching and development then we have to talk people into having faith that we know what we're doing. How do you do that when you had to fire your first choices for OC and DC? What does that say?
I think it's do or die time. Another mediocre season and TH is going to be heading down the Karen Aston road.
I agree. However, I am not going to judge this coaching staff on this years recruits until after they have actually signed somewhere and showed up to the school ready to play (this is a recently added caveat).
2020 UT Athletic Scholarship GraduatesI do not know if there are any NFL draftees here, but there are a lot of young men and women with a better future here. This is what college sports is meant to be about; giving young athletes a better chance at a quality productive future life. Bravo for them and the ones who went before and graduated also.
Congratulations to those FEW that have made it. NEVER was I talking about getting out, which should have greater numbers considering all the additional resources the athletic department provides them, but rather speaking about how many of the admissions would qualify if they were not an athlete. FWIW, I think Stanford is the best education in the country; that's the same Stanford that brags they have never flunked a football player out of school.
Ignoring what he has already accomplished the last 3 years? Reminds me of when UT fired Williams. Had a few bleaker years after that fiasco. Finally Mack walked into a relatively talented team that had won some games, just not the big ones. Herman walked into a train wreck of some talented players who had no idea of what they were doing or how to do it. Herman solved those two issues of team focus while addressing other oversights of decades duration. I do not want to go back down that road again so soon. Rolling head Coaches every 3 or 4 years means Texas not only does not reach the National Championship Game, but it does not win the conference either. The program has not only turned but has taken many steps forward. It is better to continue forward with progress than to have a program in disarray needing a rebuilding for four more years.
By coincidence, just yesterday I was wondering what we were going to do about the TE position and had even read something saying there were several in Colorado this class. And today, we offered Gunnar Helm from Englewood, CO And another to an elite level TE from Iowa - seems like now is as good a time as ever to scour Iowa prospects
Stanford, ND, USC, Cal, UCLA, UW Madison and UW Seattle, Northwestern, etc. are exactly the status of schools Texas should be competing against. I am unfamiliar with any Stanford brags.
Both are good offers, if not too late. Fidone will be tough but maybe we can get a visit. Helm will be a good one and perhaps more attainable. Both are higher rated preps than that guy who skipped to Auburn where they serve the $EC Kool-Aid.
To me Burntorange LH , the purpose of Texas football should be what it was when DKR was hired and that purpose was to win every game and prize that was out there. Period.
This may be correct. Our AD will have a bunch of expensive stadium improvements to unveil in 2021, which he will want to be an exciting and positive event. If Herman soils the bed again against ou* and cant win generally with a solid senior QB, then there is a good chance this retention decision will have been made by the time the 2020 ou game is over. * after all this time, I still dont know what the hell our OL was trying to do against them in 2019
Burntorange, I admire your never-give-up attitude but Joe's argument is weightier. You had some strawman arguments going on. But keep on keeping on.
Too much bad with the good. You can't lose to fing turtles 2 yrs in a row, all the B12 loses to much less talented teams. Bottom 5% in the country in defense 2 years in a row and retaining a DC with a crap system. Stupid 4th down decisions. Like others have said, to goal is to win every game and the fans are sick of losing to teams with less talent. That's exactly what happened to Karen, losing to teams with less talent with poor schemes and failure to develop talent caused the recruiting to drop off and then here came the snowball down the mountain. The same will happen to TH with a few more loses to less talented teams. There's already too long a list of bucket items other coaches are using against TH in recruiting. If the new coordinators don't show their worth it's all over for Tom.
An incremental bit of good news on the OL front from TFB - it may not be much but at least it is something "Am told 2021 OT, Savion Byrd did a virtual visit with Texas last week. Before that visit, I felt Texas had fallen a bit behind SMU and OU. I think Texas has narrowed the gap. I’d still lean a bit away from Texas until I hear something a little more definitive." Byrd is the #6 OT nationally in the Composite
I am optimistic about the new assistants. Forced to pick a side, I think the D might take a big leap forward. Too often, Orlando had them move pre-snap completely out of position. It felt like this happened every game and it drove me nuts. And those dang slow-developing DB blitzes from the far side of the field on 3rd down were as predictable as the sun rising in the east (argh!). This helped keep us in the bottom 1/4 of all FBS defenses. And I refuse to believe our talent was that poor. I know they weren't. A simple scheme of just lining up in sound coverage while letting our athletes show they are better than their athletes would have been better than whatever Orlando cooked up. To keep this about recruiting, if recruiting rankings mean anything at all, then they mean that we will have much more talent on defense than probably 9 of the 12 offenses were are going to face in 2020. (or most seasons for that matter). You could even argue that we will have equal or better physical talent than 100% of them (with the possible exception of LSU). So ...... so, if our offense can just get incrementally better (as one might reasonably expect with a senior QB, stacked RB room, an OL finally with some depth and something(anything) out of the TE position) then simply adding better defensive scheming could result in a large improvement in team performance overall. A top 15 offense (which is very possible) combined with a defense that made the jump all they way into the top 30 (which we have the talent for = rmbr our play vs. Utah with Orlando finally out of the players' way) will probably be enough to win the conference and put us in the playoffs hunt. My money is on the idea that it was Orlando who has been holding Herman's Texas teams back with an average of 2 (or maybe even 3) unnecessary and unnatural losses per season. But, as with all things, we will see.
Just to put numbers to this idea - here are the 247 Comp rankings 2017 (transition yr): 25th overall, #2 in B12 2018: 3rd overall, #1 in B12 2019: 3rd overall, #1 in B12 2020: 8th overall, #1 in B12
Of course, in an ideal sports world. But to deny the athletes as individuals is not humane. We have to respect their goals also as we would expect them to recognize ours beyond any game scores. It is about acknowledging their dignity and self-worth.
Remember after 2017 every Texas fan was concerned Orlando soon would be a Head Coach somewhere else? Your criticisms are erudite and the fact he became a little too predictable (as did also the offense) was to his detriment. I am almost willing to give him a flyer on 2019 for the decimation of the secondary. The confirmation of Orlando's dogmatism is what Naivar did with Ossai and other changes in the defensive scheme also. I bet Orlando learned from that and certainly took no offense as one of the first thing he did was sign Naivar. It is a low bar, but I am certain the USC defense will improve greatly this year.
