Through the Looking Glass of Southern Hospitality

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Perham1, Nov 1, 2011.

  1. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    Some black male patrons at a popular Atlanta restaurant were expected to vacate their seats so that some white women could sit down. The men refused and things got out of hand.

    Not surprisingly, the whites choose to frame this issue as one of manners, civility, and politeness.

    How rich. When the south's sense of "manners" for so long has included slavery and lynchings now it's about expecting black men to let white women get their restaurant seats.
    And guess what, either way it's the blacks who come out on the short end of the stick.

    Aren't manners wonderful? As long as you're white....

    Miss Manners
     
  2. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    Wow, Texas Hospitatlity, I have given up my seat for Black Women, white women, hispanic women, elderly gentlemen, a family with 4 kids......just wow, it is common decency.

    Again, I am just a racist Tea Bagger!!!!
     
  3. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    It says a lot about our culture that manners are viewed in this lens:


     
  4. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    Have you ever noticed that declines in things Southern whites take pride in are positive developments for everyone else?

    I think Andy Rooney did a segment on that.
     
  5. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    Why would I not be surprised if the above posters are white males?

    Here's some more info:

    What this article fails to mention is some very relevant information found in court records. Most importantly, that white men were sitting at the bar and not asked to give up their seats for the women. In employee interviews, it was revealed that the owner, Greg Greenbaum, feared 'black thugs' were going to take over the business and systematically asked staffers to slow-serve African-Americans on busy nights while limiting the number of black employees. During the NBA All-Star game in 2003, the restaurant posted "Welcome Rodeo Fans" banners and played country music to discourage blacks from dining.

    But hey, southern man, it's all about manners, right?
     
  6. Horn69

    Horn69 2,500+ Posts

    If I have a seat at a bar and am going to order dinner (the story says the men had a menu) - I 'm not giving up my seat to anyone. And I consider myself to be polite and have good manners. In a crowded restaurant there's no telling how long the men had to wait for a seat.

    I'm not really sure why the bartender would feel like he needed to replace his seated customers.

    Hook'em!!! [​IMG]
     
  7. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    Again, I am just a racist Tea Bagger!!!!

    Hm, not sure why you'd be proud of that.

    But I guess at least you're not running away from what you are. Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg would applaud your sense of self.
     
  8. dalhorn1

    dalhorn1 1,000+ Posts

    It's Bush's fault...
     
  9. general35

    general35 5,000+ Posts

    this is a great op, a nyt article that isnt negative at all toward southerners nor manners yet its taken to establish racism. wonderful. perham is the guy that is first out of the elevator in one filled with women.
     
  10. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts


     
  11. general35

    general35 5,000+ Posts

    You're absolutely right. Holding doors for women, saying "please" and "thank you", giving up seats for older people and women... clearly these were all designed so that white men could oppress women and minorities. I should really stop doing those things as it only confirms my racism.
    __________________________________________________

    "progressives" woiuld think better of you if you aborted your baby, especially if you were poor; hung out in a park in a tent and **** and pissed on the sidewalk and stole from local businesses claiming discrimination and unfair wages. Also, make sure you don't bathe or clean up any of your trash....then, and only then, can you claim yourself to a responsible member of society.....get with it man....
     
  12. HornsForever'93

    HornsForever'93 1,000+ Posts

    Screw you and your manners. In everything else involving you people it is first come first serve or don't be jealous of what I have. Of course, unless you are on the short end of the stick.
     
  13. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts

    The article managed to take an instance of possible discriminatory behavior in a space open to the public and turn it into fodder for a fluff piece on manners and the possibility of their decline. Bleh.

    The court records make it sound like there was some ugly assumptions buttressing the restaurant's reach for the primacy of manners.

    Manners are fluid and relative to circumstance. Always have been. They are indeed used to establish decorum, to set out neutral bounds for interaction, and to bully and isolate.

    I will give up my preferred seat on a plane so that children can comfortably sit with parents, I will give up my seat in any number of public situations so that an elderly person, man or woman, can sit. Etc.

    Two women wanting to sit at a restaurant bar, on its face, warrant no special treatment. It's the 21st century and women can pull their own freight. You want a seat at the bar? Get there earlier or go somewhere else. If the bar tender tells me to get up I would be very likely to ask why. I have years of bartending experience in the South. We don't play favorites with the seating unless the ownership is involved.

    It is, in my opinion, rude, and not just a little bit chickenshit, to stand behind two other patrons waiting for the bartender to single them out for some sort of faux chivalry while you covet their seating. Better be some extenuating circumstances, man or woman. Otherwise, go screw. Now, if the two ladies want to speak for themselves, fair enough. In that situation I might quite likely step aside. The bartender, and logically the restaurant, should not enforce that kind of 'mannered' contest.

    Southern Gentility and all of that is nothing special. People are, as a whole, equal parts considerate and inconsiderate no matter where you go. Foregrounding the quirks of the southern way was indeed a way to gloss over centuries of social and economic hierarchies built on brutality and exploitation. Nothing wrong with 'yes ma'am, no ma'am,' but propagandizing such interpersonal baubles so as to shroud profound social injustice writ large as a way of life earns a big 'f**k you.'
     
  14. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    Everybody calls the Tea Party members Racist, so I must accept it at face value.

    I am part of the Tea Party so I am crazy, racist and a Tea Bagger, almost every lib on this board has made that assumption and it must be correct because you say it is.

    I just follow orders and don't think for myself I let others do that for me.
     
  15. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Perham, you are way off on this. Tells a lot about you. Every man that was raised by a good family will always show good manners. This is not about them being black but more about how they were raised. I have many friends of many races including black and 100% of them would be polite and show manners by giving up their seat.

    I guess it wouldn't fit their agenda if the NYT wrote about some rednecks that had no manners.
     
  16. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    This is not about them being black but more about how they were raised.

    Never let facts get in the way of a good self-righteous indignation.
     
  17. ShinerTX

    ShinerTX 1,000+ Posts

    Atlanta is a nice city, but sadly, EVERY issue has a Black side and a White side. I mean EVERY issue.
     
  18. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts


     
  19. Perham1

    Perham1 2,500+ Posts

    I've listed the facts above.

    That you choose to ignore them is your doing.
     
  20. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  21. JohnnyM

    JohnnyM 2,500+ Posts

    Is it possible they could have had better manners AND the restaurant has a history of systemic racism? It doesn't have to be, and likely isn't, 100% one way or the other. If they were at the bar to eat, they shouldn't be expected to give up those seats. That's basically giving up your table, which I don't think is necessary. If they were just there having a drink while they waited, it would be nice to offer the seat to the ladies. However, if the restaurant only asks black folks to give up their seat and has done other things to discourage black patrons, isn't that worth some scrutiny to you manner-police?
     
  22. Bronco

    Bronco 500+ Posts


     
  23. JohnnyM

    JohnnyM 2,500+ Posts


     
  24. Bronco

    Bronco 500+ Posts


     
  25. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    Just waiting on the rebuttal......this one is going to be good.

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    And bronco completely and utterly pwns Perham.

    Beautiful.
     
  27. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    *chirp* *chirp*
     
  28. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts

    'Southern Hospitality' seems to likely be a business ploy in this case, not unlike a 'Ladies Night' where females get in free while the males are charged for entry. I get the context that Perham was trying to affix to this version of 'Southern Hospitality,' and I think history supports wariness in re claims of discriminatory actions made in favor of good manners. People used to burn for that. But in this instance it is just a goofy term pasted on a T&A plank.

    The indication is that, while there was testimony from some former members of the bar's staff that suggested that certain practices were in place to keep patio space and the like mostly 'white,' the jury saw what happened to the plaintiffs as largely a matter of playing along with a rule that was enforced according to non-racist policies.

    Sounds like there was enough circumstantial evidence to get to a jury but not enough to really get the jury to takes the charges seriously where the plaintiff was concerned. Given the bar's long standing practice, I would say the jury's quick decision was understandable, though not necessarily something that rebutted the video testimony indicating there were discriminatory practices aimed at black youths who were seen as 'thugs' or embroiled in the 'hip hop' culture.

    I think that the bar's failure to clearly advertise their 'hospitality' helped create a situation wherein the plaintiff quite reasonably could have felt discriminated against. He then hires an attorney and they start digging and get some feedback from former employees that seemed to give them a leg to stand on, though it turned out to be inapplicable because what happened to the plaintiff was based in something quirky rather than racially discriminatory. It also appears that what was understandably taken by the plaintiff's team as testimony of racial discrimination was really discrimination against a subculture which, in that area, was primarily made up of blacks. That was a misread, especially as the ploy applied to all males and the plaintiff was offered new seating and free drinks. Sounds like the plaintiff was being silly and the bar obliged by being intractable in their own right. The lawyers win.

    I believe that it was indicated the plaintiff was tossed for failing to abide by the seating for women ploy as opposed to a removal based in disruptive behavior. That seems dumb to me and a recipe for pissing people off who are not on board with the game. You take your chances when you do that. They got caught- they escaped a jury's wrath, but ended up having to pay the dragon. Prolly best to improve their communication about that 'policy' or skew toward more flexibility.
     
  29. TexasGolf

    TexasGolf 2,500+ Posts

    BHO should call for a beer summit
     
  30. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    In reply to:


     

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