In it to win it (Ron Paul)

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by BernOrange, Apr 15, 2012.

  1. BernOrange

    BernOrange 500+ Posts

    So last night I watched a little bit of the start of SNL and caught a skit where Romney and Santorum are at a bar reminiscing about the race and they are slowly joined by Perry, Bachmann, Cain and finally Gingrich, who they shun because his campaign is broke and he hasn't quit yet. The whole gist of the skit was that the race was over and and Romney has won. Guess who's name was never mentioned and who didn't make an appearance? I sat there watching and wondering if this might end up being a modern twist on "Dewey Defeats Truman".

    This race isn't over yet. Lots of district and state conventions were held Friday and yesterday in several states to select the national delegates for the convention in Tampa and unofficial reports are that Ron Paul supporters are turning out in huge numbers:

    Colorado - Ron 13 delegates, Mitt 13 delegates, Santorum 7 delegates, 3 super delegates expected to go for Mitt
    Minnesota - Ron swept 9 out of 9 delegates and 9 out of 9 alternate delegates from the districts that convened
    Oklahoma - Ron swept 6 out of 6 delegates and 6 out of 6 alternate delegates from districts 3 & 5.

    Even more interesting are reports from people at the conventions that the Ron Paul and Rick Santorum campaigns were coordinating and pushing "unity" slates to thwart the Romney campaign. If the reports are true, this coordination came from the national campaigns and not the grassroots levels. If this continues, Romney may not get the 1,144 delegates he needs to secure the nomination outright.

    The media is doing their best to ignore the Ron Paul campaign (I doubt you will find any coverage of what's really happening with delegate selections) and annoint Romney as the GOP nominee. However, money talks. There is a fundraiser for the Ron Paul campaign happening today - right now. This is a critical juncture. If you support Ron Paul, or even just don't like Mitt Romney, please consider donating whatever you can spare. Even $10 helps (the Paul campaign is very frugal and smart with their money - fiscal conservatism that walks the walk):

    [​IMG]

    https://secure.ronpaul2012.com/

    Release the hounds!
     
  2. NEWDOC2002

    NEWDOC2002 1,000+ Posts

    Good luck with that. I just hopes he keeps a fire to the feet of Romney on constitutional issues.
     
  3. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    BernOrange -- hope and optimism can be marveous personal traits. While I believe Ron Paul is expressing ideas worthy or a hearing, I just don't see a path forward for him. Romney is the Republican candidate wth the greatest understanding of economic issues. Here's hoping he can muster the political skill to look presidential and electable after a nasty primary fight that hasn't allowed him to appeal to swing voters.
     
  4. BernOrange

    BernOrange 500+ Posts

    How hard have you looked? He has way more delegates than the media is reporting.
     
  5. Burnt Orange Bevo

    Burnt Orange Bevo 1,000+ Posts

    I like Ron Paul's down-to-earth views on simple(r) government and freer (less manipulated) economics. However, the fact is that there are too many established powers that feed off the American teat that it's hard to see Ron's downsizing ways ever coming to pass (until perhaps the U.S. collapses under the weight of its foreign and domestic obligations).

    For example, it's hard to see how we can possibly unwind the Federal Reserve at this point, it is too entwined with the repurchase of U.S. Treasuries (and is basically doing CYA for the huge U.S. debt/deficits). Ditto for U.S. military involvement in foreign affairs -- the military-industrial complex (e.g. Lockheed) is far too powerful at this point for one guy to fight... on that Eisenhower was correct/prescient. The list could go on, but the point is that Romney has the best grasp of economic issues to challenge Obama in November. It's true Romney is not (or much less of) a true conservative than most Republicans would like, but the Pubs would do well to get behind Romney now, or else watch Obama serve another 4 years.
     
  6. BernOrange

    BernOrange 500+ Posts

    In reply to:


     
  7. ShinerTX

    ShinerTX 1,000+ Posts

    Ron Paul is the most honest and genuine candidate running. No one else even comes close. Especially the Campaigner in Chief. Unfortunately he's also up in age, so the camera does him no favors. When he speaks it sounds like whining. I'd love to see Rand run but oviously 2012 is too late for that.

    Ironically I think if Romney wins, the status quo wins. If Obama wins, I think we will take a hard turn to the left as there will be no more campaigns to pretend to be centrist. We will press the accelerator toward becomming the next Greece.
     
  8. Burnt Orange Bevo

    Burnt Orange Bevo 1,000+ Posts


     
  9. Horn89

    Horn89 1,000+ Posts


     
  10. Horn89

    Horn89 1,000+ Posts

    One more video showing Ron Paul on Fox, who they present as a zany, unelectable lunatic, even though he sounds rational, reasonable, and educated. No doubt this interview aired on a day where Paul's campaign was repeatedly dismissed by Fox's pundits with a chuckle and a wave.

    Honest question: Could anyone here watch that 5-minute O'Reilly interview and think that Romney, Santorum, or Gingrich has a better fundamental understanding of this issue than Paul? And if they don't, why are those 3 given a free pass by Fox as legitimate candidates, while the network treats Paul with open hostility and derision and lets their anchors smugly chuckle in his face (first video) or shout down his answers (this one)?
     
  11. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad Son of a Motherless Goat

    Horn89,

    Conspiracies are real things. Unfortunately that term has turned into meaning some kind of wacky theory of something that couldnt possibly ever be true.

    People forget that the media by and large is owned and directed by a relatively small number of people, and most TV stations and newspapers are under the umbrella of a few large and powerful companies, run by a few rich and powerful men.

    So the media having a complete bias against Ron Paul due to political preference is not a wacky crazy theory. However, it most certainly is a conspiracy. And it is blatantly obvious. Anyone who says that there hasnt been a bias against Paul has their head in the sand.

    And to the comment that Romney has a better understanding of the economy than Paul does... LOL

    Where was Romney 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago predicting the problems we are having today and giving the reasons why we are having them. Ron Paul not only foresaw what we are seeing today, he hit it out of the park 10, 20 years ago. He wasnt just pulling that out of his ***. Its because he understood the system we have and knew what would happen.

    Romney knows damn well what the problems are, but he doesnt have the balls to fix them because he is part of the problem. Its all window dressing with him, Santorum and the others.
     
  12. UT1986

    UT1986 500+ Posts


     
  13. l00p

    l00p 10,000+ Posts


     
  14. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts

    Ron Paul can be in it all he wants, he isnt' going to win ****.
     
  15. BernOrange

    BernOrange 500+ Posts

    This write-up gives a decent insight into what is really happening with delegate selection right now:
    The Link
     
  16. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad Son of a Motherless Goat

    And this is the problem with the primary system Ricky.... too many people see the results from the first 15 to 20 states, and the remaining 30 say to hell with it, candidate A or B has already locked it up....

    Thats not how it is supposed to work. On top of that, Paul is showing just how stupid the media is for saying that Romney has won this many delegates or that many delegates when the process isnt even done. Paul is going to end up winning way more delegates than the media says he has because his supporters are actually supporting him, not just paying lip service.

    Paul has my support no matter what Romney is polling because I agree with Paul, not Romney. Its that simple.
     
  17. Burnt Orange Bevo

    Burnt Orange Bevo 1,000+ Posts

    I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, and I get the point that Ron Paul may surprise at the convention with more votes than most people expect. But until Ron Paul can either:

    (1) outright win a huge number of remaining smaller-delegate states, or

    (2) outright win a few of the "whale" states (e.g. CA, NY, TX),

    he's nothing more than a good man advocating good/interesting ideas running a good race who will be an also-ran. To date, Ron Paul has placed first in zero/zilch states. You guys (gals) who support him, I admire your passion for the guy, but if you would actually bet money that Ron Paul wins the Republican nomination for POTUS in 2012, my only response is...

    [​IMG]
     
  18. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad Son of a Motherless Goat

    Burnt,

    Its about supporting the candidate you feel is the best one for the job. Its not my fault too many Americans, we are told anyway, like Mitt or Santorum or Obama. Thats not my problem.

    Im not just some cheerleader going ra ra ra for my favorite political personality. I dont care if Paul wins or not. Im voting for him because hes the best candidate.

    However, I dont think we really know how well Paul has done. He may have actually won a state or two. The news out of New Hampshire I believe where county heads were told that Romney had won when the county heads were saying that no, Paul won, is quite disturbing, especially when the official totals from those counties show "zero" across the board.

    I think there has been fraud, but again, Im voting for Paul despite what the rest of Americans do.
     
  19. Burnt Orange Bevo

    Burnt Orange Bevo 1,000+ Posts


     
  20. AustinBat

    AustinBat 2,500+ Posts


     
  21. BernOrange

    BernOrange 500+ Posts

    Burnt - in my last post, I provided a link to an article which states:In reply to:


     
  22. BernOrange

    BernOrange 500+ Posts


     
  23. zork

    zork 2,500+ Posts

    Ron Paul never has nor will have a chance to win. He might have a chance to be a spoiler which would be unfortunate. 20 years ago as a late 55+ year old he could have come up with some realism and made a move but his time is over.

    He didn't win this time and likely won't be running next time when he is over 80.

    Maybe he can learn why his messages overall don't translate to more than 10% nationally.
    What was the most he ever got in a national election?
     
  24. Gone To Texas

    Gone To Texas 500+ Posts


     
  25. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts


     
  26. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    1. First, I agree with the OP, that Ron Paul's relative strength and success has been basically ignored and discounted in the press. I also agree that frequently people substitute "He's crazy or stupid," for "I don't agree with or understand his views." I also agree that Ron Paul has been very consistent over a long time, more so on important constitutional issues than almost any other elected person. So, he deserves respect.

    2. There are a couple of reasons for this discounting, however, that are not mere conspiracy. One is that the "Ron Paul movement" really does have a low glass ceiling. That is, no matter how many people get exposed to it or how many mainstream outlets put out the message, there are not ever going to be that many people who buy that particular package of beliefs. Within the echo chamber, where so many RP's are so emphatic and passionate, they imagine that they are just money or exposure or fair treatment away from going from a 12% movement to a 50% movement. Also, the very nature of the RP revolution is to label everything undesirable or irrational as a conspiracy; very heavy on the political victim theme. So, crying "wolf" is their first language.

    This leads to the second reason for discounting. Not necessarily Dr. Paul himself, but the RP's in general take pride in not playing well with the other political interests in the sandbox. The hallmark of their attitude within the political arena is accusation, disruption, name-calling, and deconstruction. Again, the sentiment is revolution. As a consequence, rather than being able to triangulate their influence (from large numbers, decent money, and the highest level of passion), their idealism prevents any other interest group from engaging them. They are not gifted in compromise.

    So, whereas the tea party movement put pressure on all sides of the aisle to at least stop raising taxes, I do not think this large RP movement will be effective at all in pressuring all sides to return to constitutional government. I wish it would have that effect.
     
  27. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad Son of a Motherless Goat

    VYfan,

    4 years ago the pundits were saying that only 4 or 5% of American would ever buy into Paul's message.

    Well four years later he almost wins Iowa, was winning Iowa until 3 days before the caucus, probably should have won New Hampshire, and has quadrupled in many places his support. So to say there is a low glass ceiling, when the media and the mainstream political machine from both parties are against him, is short sighted in my opinion.

    Look. Stupid Rick Perry shot out of the gate with great polling numbers even though no one outside Texas knew who he was. It was media generated. Perry put his own foot in his mouth.

    The media has been from day one, anti-Paul, almost across the board. When more Americans really understand what Paul is saying, they start realizing he makes sense, especially when they look at his track record.

    He makes sense. Protect the people who have been paying into social security for decades, but allow young people to opt out. Protect medicare for the elderly whove paid into it, but allow the young people to opt out.

    Audit the Fed first. Then make way to eliminate it. Allow local government to have more control over itself, ie education etc.

    He accurately predicted everything weve seen over the lasst 5, 6 years and given the reasons or it. Lucky? I dont think so. And he will be the first one to tell you he wont wave a magic wand and make everything go away.
     
  28. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts


     
  29. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    2003:
    You actually didn't say anything I disagree with, although you made it sound like you were contradicting me. I think Dr. Paul has some great ideas, and you have listed some of them. There also are some opinions that are widely unpopular. He, personally, is only part of the limitation I was describing.

    I'm not sure who predicted 5% or when or why. I repeat that there is clearly a ceiling, and it will not even be half a majority no matter what, and that fact is made more game-ending for the reason I said, which is that the RP movement refuses to compromise, make coalitions, work within existing structures, etc. Don't you agree that that is the nature of this group?

    I will repeat that I have best wishes for many of the directions this group wants to go, but my best guess is that for all the sparks and fireworks and effort, not one inch of actual long-term progress will be made--again for the reasons I posted.
     
  30. 2003TexasGrad

    2003TexasGrad Son of a Motherless Goat

    Doesnt make him unique? Hey, if you can show me one other presidential candidate over the last 4 years, or any major politician for that matter, over the last 4 years, who so clearly explained what was going to happen and why, then Ill go ahead and agree with you.

    Ron Paul told us the economy was going to collapse and why, and was right, and you say that he isnt unique....
     

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