Truthfully, I'm pretty discouraged just like everyone else around here. Many will probably say "who is this delusional moron?" But I'm not ready to call for another coach yet. I know I am in the minority, and I cannot easily defend my position whereas people calling for Mack's head have plenty of evidence on the field to which they can point. I guess I am just not convinced that he has lost control of the program yet. One of the things I keep thinking about is another Texas coaching legend, Darrell Royal. Take a look at a segment of his coaching career below:Darrell Royal Record: 1963 - 11-0 (National Championship) 1964 - 10-1 1965 - 6-4 1966 - 7-4 1967 - 6-4 1968 - 9-1-1 1969 - 11-0 (National Championship) I think we can say that at least their records with three consecutive subpar seasons are comparable (though Darrell never had a sub .500 record), and they also came within a couple years of a National Championship or Championship appearance. Darrell was able to get back on track and win another championship. I wonder if people were saying then that Royal was hanging on too long and needed to go... they would have been wrong. I do not know the circumstances that led to Coach Royal's three down years, and therefore cannot make a concrete comparison. But here are a couple of my questions that I would like to ask: 1) Does anybody that was around during those years of Royal's career remember if fans were calling for Royal's replacement and making claims that he had lost control of the program? What were the circumstances that led to those down years? 2) Is it possible that Mack can turn this around and have tremendous years in 2013 and 2014 such as he has been claiming and pointing to? I understand that ultimately the results on the field are king, but I also know that as fans we do not have all the facts nor can we possibly understand the true state of the culture of the team. I am not a Mack Brown apologist. I cannot defend the poor defeats that we have had. I just simply don't believe that he has lost control of this program and lost the ability to get Texas back to the top, which could be why it is great that I am not the one making the hard decisions. What are your thoughts..... bring it on... I have thick skin.
I am right with you, conditionally. I say one more year because there is no excuse after what he will bring back next year. I won't comment on the DC positions as that's not what this is about. If we get blown out in our bowl game he may want to consider letting it go. But if they win or gut it out I respect what he has done to get us back on the map in a prominent position, though the star has faded lately. Ballsy post and I cannot let you stand alone on it. I am with you and we are in the minority.
I was with yall until this years ou game, then that's when I jumped ship. I would love for yall to tell me next year I was wrong but from what I've seen, I doubt you will. For the record, I agree this is a ballsy post. I lived through the Johnny Mac years, I can live through this.
I agree. I am NOT happy by any means, but I well remember the years after Royal when we ultimately grew to accept mediocrity as the norm...until MB arrived. We honestly didn't realize how bad we had become. It took a long time to get us back to the top. There are no assurances that the next change will go any easier, but patience is wearing thin.
Add to the discussion that as a result of those 4-loss seasons, Coach Royal saw to it that his program developed a new and exciting offense that too the college landscape by storm. Can this organization do that? Innovate and re-write a new chapter in how the game is played? Not as easy to do today as it was 40 years ago. Much of the innovation is already underway at other high-flying offensive programs.
Tejas, yes, this ou crushing was brutal and hit hard. But I was disgusted with the other ones too and have used them in any J Mac bashings. I would point out that while he had his problems he also brought us many good things and memories such as the Husker win, Ricky. Also, he never lost to ou like Mack had. Short rope.
Ok I admire your "courage"... ha... but at the same time it takes "courage" to type up dissent. I don't agree with the comparison for the following reasons: 1) Coach Royal was much younger and I bet he wasn't near as beat up mentally as Mack is right now. 2) We have no schematic advantage that I can discern; I'm willing to be schooled on this by anyone who knows better 3) We have accepted mediocrity. We don't realize it but it's there. This was the third year and we are OUT of the top 25. 4) As for the players coming back I know we have a couple here and there who are really good but I don't see dominance. We will have an advantage due to attrition from other schools as opposed to our superior coaching (cough cough) and top recruiting (that has now been debunked would you not say?) 5) Mack is just a used-car salesman as far as I'm concerned. His press conference are beyond cringe inducing. There is no buzz around the program and he uses arrogance and power to get through the hard times as opposed to statements that CLEARLY articulate a vision. Mind-numbing stats are for losers. Isn't that what we always heard? Posting Guideline violations edited - OB
he needs to take a huge pay cut. getting outcoached and blown out way too much the last 3 years. only one win against a ranked team.
The game and our circumstances have changed in 40 years. It's not entirely correct to compare Darrell to Mack in terms of wins and losses. On a personal basis, Mack displays some disturbing characteristics which Darrell did not. If he were winning championships and not leaving us cringing that the next ou game will be yet another blowout, that wouldn't matter. Regarding performance, what is expected at Texas is not Mack constantly trying (often only when he's let things push him to the wall) to achieve - what is expected is what Stoops accomplishes. And, unfortuneately for Mack and the fans, that is the standard which he does not promise to live up to. As an honorable and decent and well meaning man, no one in college sports is his equal. It's time to literally cut our losses and move on - before another phase of Mack's desperation blows up in our faces.
Regarding the DKR data, I don't see a losing season. I don't see embarrassing losses to our rival. I don't see an era of scholarship limitations, integrated teams in the Southwest Conference, and inivative offenses. Other than those and other significant distinctions, clap, clap, clap away.
I am holding out hope that he announces his retirement in two weeks and they name Major as his replacement. Major is the same age DKR was when he took over. He has studied under Saban and Mack, he is a great recruiter knows the state, understands UT and demands respect. I dont see Muschamp, Saban or Meyer coming here now.
This is a proposition-for-support-thread. Even if it weren't, you could hardly expect, in the current atmosphere around the program, that there would not be arguments not in support. There is a painful reality regarding where the program is today compared to what is expected of it, compared to what is paid for it, and compared to what other programs have been accomplishing while we languish. Mack may stay awhile. I might have to live with that, but I do not support it. Even if he does stay, even if there are those who support him (even tentatively, as your post implies), things will never be the same between him and the fanbase. It's over. Let the amicable divorce begin.
Nobody should dispute the right for a support thread, but the OP stated. "What are your thoughts....bring it....I have thick skin. I believe that means anybody can respond in whatever way they feel about the subject in a respectful manner.
Coach Royal's teams were never blown out during the decade of the sixties. He had a winning record against ou. He won many, many conference championships. Please don't try to sell it that Mack is in Coach Royal's rarified air. Mack's not a coach. He's a CEO, and still has some capital with those who make decisions. He will be here next year. I'm not optimistic that he will win the conference. OSU, TCU, and WVU, and Baylor (yes Baylor) and of course ou, will give his team big time problems. Especially if Diaz is still here. His team will be very talented. But we all know, don't we, that the most talented team doesn't always win the game.
@ Bystander. Points taken. Though I believe your points largely are subjective and this is what I believe reflects much of the perspectives on this board and in the overall fanbase. And though it is easy for me to say that we don't have all the facts, I also acknowledge that my support for Mack is also largely based in subjectivity. Regarding your point on Mack being a used-car salesman and using arrogance and power to get through the hard times, I just don't think that reflects the character he has shown overall in the past 15 years. In my opinion this is completely inconsistent with what we have seen over his career. I'll acknowledge though that he has never been under this amount of stress before, and we are seeing glimpses of how he handles this much pressure. Regarding your point of mediocrity, I don't think you can be further from the truth. Who has accepted mediocrity? Mack? Deloss? The team? Mack wouldn't look 20 years older than two years ago if he had and Mack wouldn't be on the hot seat if the admin and powers that be have accepted mediocrity. The fanbase obviously has not, nor have I accepted it. It wouldn't be so stressful and heated at every turn if people have accepted mediocrity. I don't believe it comes down to people who have and have not accepted mediocrity, but rather differing beliefs on what Mack is still capable of at this program. The desire for excellence at this university is as great as, and greater, than any school in the country. But I don't dispute your other points. I may be wrong in my support for Mack, but I truly hope the rest of you are wrong. If you are wrong in the end, I won't gloat. Instead I will be proud of a good coach and a great man who stood up under adversity and had the strength and vision to restore a historically great program to its proper place among the elite again.
Mack can stay as long as he wants for me. K state had 27 seniors, and we were ahead after 2.5 hours of football. Yeah, I am proud of how this team has fought this year.
In regards to Coach Brown's comparison to Darrel Royal, Darrel had 1 humiliating defeat against blowU. Just one! Sure he had losses to blowU, but Texas went 12-7-1 under the helm of Coach Royal. I posted this in another thread after the blowU loss this year, but the Horns have had 11 humiliating losses to blowU since 1900. Of those 11 losses, Coach Brown has been the coach of 4 of those within 15 years and Coach Royal has one of those losses in 20 years. In 1973, blowU defeated Texas 52 -13. Prior to that loss, Texas had lost to blowU in 1971 and 1972. Coach Royal would go on to lose to blowU again in 1974 and 1975. Still being a young teenager at the time and not knowing all the circumstances surrounding Coach Royal's ouster (perhaps you old timers >50 can clarify), it appears that after 5 years of losing to your hated arch enemy, it was enough to convince the big dawgs that it was time for Darrel to no longer be the head coach at Texas. Amazingly, the lean average years you point out in your post between the 1st and 2nd championships, Texas lost just once to blowU 18-9 in 1966, while still winning against blowU in 1965 and 1967. Granted the W-L record was certainly average, but he still only lost once to blowU during that time. I think that throughout the coaching carousel at Texas since the existence of football on the 40 acres, it comes down to consistently winning against your arch rival(s). Coaches that couldn't do that on a consistent basis were shown the door. Given that, I would think it's hard not to believe that Coach Brown has been given more than a fair shake/length of rope/goodwill, etc.. whatever you want to call it to remain at Texas despite his losing record against blowU. I think it's time Coach Brown. I appreciate all you've done to restore Texas after the dark years in the 80s and 90s. You made Texas relevant again, but don't let us become irrelevant again! This evening the talking heads on ESPN were talking about the upcoming Alamo Bowl. In particular, our old buddy Mark Mays was discussing how can Texas coaches with all the resources at our disposal (e.g., top notch facilities, money, top 5 recruiting classes) not develop the players more than they have. And as much as I think he's a douche, it's hard to argue with his statements given the lack of Big 12 championship hardware and games in which the team appears to be completely unprepared or "surprised" by the opponent. It's sad, I saw a Texas fan in the stands last night at the game with a t-shirt. I couldn't see all the writing on his shirt, but something along the lines of picture of our Longhorn mascot and "Fear This" or "Fear the Horns". It's probably been since the early and late 60s that teams feared playing the Longhorns. To wear a shirt like that now is just arrogant and dumb. Oh, I would love for teams to fear playing the Horns again, but I just don't see it happening under Mack Brown's watch. This team has been soft for too long. We had a chance to turn it around with Muschamp, but somehow that experiment turned ugly quick. He's certainly turned it around for Florida. I guess I would ask, are Florida's recruits at the time they signed their LOI, significantly more talented than the players Mack recruited that signed with Texas?
Someone above said this was a support thread. I wouldn't say it's a support thread. I did start by supporting him, but hope that the thread would be one where we could debate the support and lack of support for Mack. @ HORN60 You say "what is expected is what Stoops accomplishes." Granted he has a winning record against us... with a few blowouts mixed in. But how many bowl games and BCS bowl games did he lose consecutively? I'd suggest that if Stoops had done that same thing here, Texas fans might have called for his head too. We have a loyal and good fan base, but it can be absolutely brutal too. I am not complaining about this. If our base were not brutal, that would imply a lack of demand for excellence. I am glad for that. Nevertheless, I wonder if we do not give Mack enough credit for being an elite coach. Yep... I said elite. Though once again, I acknowledge that he may not be operating in that elite capacity now and possibly it is time for him to go. I just don't believe that yet, but I can be stubborn.
K-State will always have lots of upperclassmen. That's kind of what happens when go out and get so many juco players like they have always done. Coach Royal left because he hated the way recruiting had become a who can buy the best players contest. What I heard from the stands in Manhattan which is becoming a constant theme from them is "We own Texas." Who can argue with them and that is troubling along with the OU semi annual blowouts. Stoops was getting to those BCS bowls mostly by beating Texas and winning the conference. I don't think if Mack had beaten OU more times and won more conference titles we would be calling for his head.
Did you bother to read the results in 1965, 1966 and 1967 under Coach Royal? One loss by 17, one by 15 and the remainder by 10 or fewer points and most by less than a touchdown. One 9 point loss to OU and two victories over OU, including a 19-0 score. In none of those losses did the Longhorns embarrass themselves or the University. Even during the worst seasons under Royal the Longhorns knew how to tackle and knew how to hit. Royal would never blame the weather, the fans or any of Mack Brown's sundry other scapegoats. Mack Brown couldn't carry Darrell Royal's clipboard. His behavior in response to criticism from the fans and media is inexcusable and have made him a laughing stock. Mack Brown has done much for The University, but he has demonstrated that he is incapable of leading the program to excellence. If he truly admires and respects Coach Royal and his legacy, he should follow his lead and resign.
63-21, 55-17, 65-13, 63-14 = UNACCEPTABLE I don't care what else he's done, you can't get your *** kicked like this by your biggest rival & keep your job....at least you shouldn't.
I just fully read all of the thread. To anyone who is sensitive about nay sayers... you're missing the point of this thread. Take your hits if people come on here swinging. @ UT1986
Thanks Dovey 317 A very good thread with a boatload of facts that have to be considered. I have think about this.
