UT's checkmate move over aTm

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Universal, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts


     
  2. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    PropJoe,

    Your post's are welcome on this site and I respect your views.

    If the SEC had the choice of adding either Texas or A&M when you joined, who do you think they would have chosen?

    You and I both know the answer to that question. The best fit for Texas to move to another conference would be the PAC 12 or possible ACC because of the number of excellent academic universities in both conferences.

    However, both are long distance travel for the fans. We also want to be in the same conference with our old traditional rival, the hated Sooners. However, I believe that most of us respect the long standing excellence of their programs. I cannot say the same about any other school in now, or was, in the Big 12 except Kansas in basketball..

    The Big 12 is a superior basketball conference to the SEC even though one of your schools has a history of excellence in basketball. Yes Florida has won the Championship, but they do not have the history. I believe that the Biig 12 is also better in baseball.

    Basketball is the lone exception to the history our school has in men's sport and is the thorn in my side. I will not live long enough to see the trophy in Austin. That is why I dislike the NBA, they have ruined college basketball. If the NBA had the same rule as pro baseball or pro basketball, I think we would have that trophy by now.

    I do not miss Arkansas and really don't miss A&M either. You made the right choice for your school. You would have never overcome OU or Texas in the Big 12, that's why you left.

    Texas would probably go independent before they joined the SEC.
     
  3. darius

    darius 500+ Posts

    After Reagan beat Mondale in 1984 and Bush beat Dukakis in 1988 - both enormous Republican landslides - I remember political analysts seriously debating whether the Democrats would ever capture the presidency again. The Democrat platform, controlled by fringe interests, was out-of-step with mainstream America, and their candidates were laughable.

    My, how times have changed. So likewise will the landscape of college football evolve. Give it time.
     
  4. Dirty Martin

    Dirty Martin 500+ Posts

    UT's checkmate move is to win.
     
  5. tejas77

    tejas77 1,000+ Posts

    FireRC stated:


     
  6. aggressor

    aggressor 100+ Posts

    There is simply no way Texas will go to the SEC now, it's just not feasible. A&M and Arkansas will always block Texas and the SEC would not allow Texas without unanimous consent even though technically the bylaws require a 3/4 vote I believe. The rest of the SEC doesn't care for Texas much either as you don't play well with others. The SEC is a conference where all schools get a say and are respected, Texas simply doesn't fit with that. Texas would want to take over the SEC and run the show and that simply won't ever happen.

    The numbers also don't make sense. Texas is a huge brand and would help the SEC nationally but that isn't exactly a big problem for the SEC right now. They are already seen as the premier conference that dominates national ratings. Where it doesn't make sense is the SEC expansion has been driven by the SEC Network and adding states to that network in which they can charge "in state" rates. They already have this with A&M and to a lesser extent the hundreds of thousands of SEC grads and fans that live in Texas. The SEC Network is going to be partnered with ESPN and have 2-3 SEC games per week on it and thus it will get picked up by every significant provider in the State without Texas and it will do so for a healthy fee of $1-2 per month. That's the big money. Even if Texas dropped the LHN (which would certainly be a requirement) they don't add the State of Texas as A&M already has done that. Texas is certainly valuable still but it is less valuable to the SEC than any other conference because of this.

    It's also not going to happen on the Texas side. One of the keys to how A&M left was they got away alone and left Texas with Tech, Baylor, and now TCU. It was a huge tactical error when Texas claimed that the Big 12 would survive so long as they were in it. What you did with that is put the fortunes of those 3 schools on your tit. OU has the same problem with OSU. You can't just leave those schools without taking care of them from a political perspective, especially now what A&M won't make life any easier for you. The SEC certainly isn't going to take Texas along with any of those other schools, they have no reason to.

    The academic point simply shows how little a lot of Horns have been paying attention. Texas is now one of only 3 AAU schools in the Big 12 and the other 2 (Iowa State and esp KU) are not exactly academic heavyweights. OSU, Tech, and WVU are all absolute turds academically as well. The SEC really only has 2 "bad" schools in the Mississippi schools and they still aren't worse than any of those 3. The SEC also has 4 AAU schools (Vandy, UF, A&M, and Mizzou) as well as 3 other very solid academic schools in UGA, UA, and AU. The rest are primarily decent schools but they are all Flagship schools in their state (USC, UT, LSU, UK, and Arky).

    The SEC is looking to expand to the East as well if they do expand. They want a Virginia and a NC school. The big prize is UNC but that is a very complex issue as UNC desperately wants to keep the ACC together and likes having their traditional rivals but if the ACC breaks up they will have to decide between the SEC and the Big 1G. The SEC would then go for either UVA or VTech as a backup. Really they are just waiting for the ACC to implode on itself first though.

    Sorry guys but A&M is the one that checkmated Texas with this move. Texas has to choose amongst several less than desirable options as the playing field is only going to get more slanted in coming years. The money and publicity A&M is getting in the SEC and will continue to get isn't going away and is actually going to explode in coming years. A&M surpassed Texas in size this year and is still growing, even the alumni gap is closing at around 450k for Texas and 370k for A&M. They are taking over Houston and East Texas and have a strong presence all over the rest of the State. They are building ridiculous new football facilities and after next season will break ground on the Kyle renovation which will push capacity over 104k with massive amounts of luxury seating that will be a money machine. The demand for Aggie Football is at an all time high and growing. It's more than Manziel and Sumlin, the recruiting classes are as good as the '80s and early 90's and the publicity of being in the SEC with virtually every game on national TV is a game changer. Talking about the past is really irrelevant, A&M has put some major building blocks in place for the future.

    If you hate the SEC now just wait a few years if Texas doesn't do something. Soon the SEC will have ESPN even deeper in their pocket with the SEC Network combined with ESPN already owning their Tier 2 rights. That means ESPN will basically become the SEC channel. You can already see it with 7 of 13 Gameday locations at SEC schools this year (only 1 Big 12) and all the original programming such as "SEC Storied" on their channels. The new college playoff has no limits on how many schools can come from one conference so realize the SEC will likely have at least 2 of the 4 in most years and then still have schools at the Sugar (Champions), Orange, and Cotton. All of the SEC schools are investing HUGE amounts of money in their facilities as well to get an even firmer death grip on the best recruits. They have stacked the deck and are going to walk in to the poker game with 3 pocket Aces. Mike Slive is easily the smartest man in College Football. All of that football success is also translating to other areas as well. The SEC schools are already swimming in cash and are about to get much, much richer.

    The best thing Texas can do is to deal with the reality of the situation and not just expect everything to be ok. You need to fire Dodds yesterday and probably Powers. You need to abandon the LHN and work with the other Big 12 schools to form a network and then you should aggressively go after adding ACC schools that are on the outside looking in of the SEC and Big 1G. Georgia Tech, FSU, Clemson, Pitt, NC State or Duke, perhaps Miami. Then believe it or not with the Big 1G and SEC making a couple of moves of their own there will be one big prize left you can finally get, Notre Dame. Do that and the Big 12 becomes a true national conference that can stand up against the other 3 majors and athletically surpasses the Pac 12 and Big 1G.

    Stop spending your time worrying about the past and spilled milk. The Pac 12 is a backup option as they would take Texas/OU/OSU/Tech but that leaves you at a permanent disadvantage with A&M. Very few Texas kids would rather go to the Pac 12 over the SEC even if you had 4 schools from this region join. Still, it isn't a terrible option.

    The other thing Texas really needs to consider is renewing the series with A&M. It is good for both schools and it is good for the State. The argument that A&M somehow would wither and die without Texas has certainly been disproved. A high profile, home and home series with the other Flagship school in Texas sells season tickets for both schools and likely has Gameday there every season (esp because it would likely be early season now instead of Thanksgiving weekend).

    Call me a stupid Aggy if you wish.
     
  7. Trusted Insider

    Trusted Insider 1,000+ Posts

    aggressor,
    Please talk to us about checkmante after you win something. You all had a really great season. It would probably be our 5th best in the past 12 years so I for one think that's something for you all to be proud of.
    Try stringing something together before you act like every other aggy out there who thinks you all should be playing in this year's Super Bowl.
     
  8. aggressor

    aggressor 100+ Posts


     
  9. Universal

    Universal 25+ Posts

    Thank you Aggressor...you just proved my point, and I agree with you completely. The Ags put the Horns in check, but I still think we can checkmate you if we really want it. I seriously doubt that Slive would pass on adding UT and OU to the SEC...I don't know the bylaws, but I think Slive would find a way to do it if we expressed an interest. I also think aTm and Arky would welcome having games with the Horns again (very doubtful we play again in the current situation). It would be fun again to mix it up with the big bad Horns (you know it's true)...chances are both teams will get in their licks often enough anyway...why shy away from letting us in. As for the "Tech problem (and now TCU and Baylor)" if the Ags can blow out of the Big 12 without any repurcussions, so can UT.

    Of course, I know the reason this idea scares the Ags...you are laughing all the way to the bank and into the hearts and minds of recruits. As I warned over the years and it is now coming true, Aggie going SEC is a game changer and most Horns don't seem to realize it. It reminds me of Dell...while Apple is creating Ipods and Ipads that everybody is buying, Dell is still selling ****** PCs...the game has changed, and our product sucks. Sure a coaching change may help, and winning always helps, but too many Horns don't realize how much steeper uphill that battle is going to be and Aggie isn't getting weaker. Those who say it is cyclical again are missing the point...the Ags are in the best athletic conference and we are not. The Ag games are huge media events, and although we get our share of media, our home games are dead unless a big-time opponent shows up (which doesn't happen often in the Big 12). Sure, we'll always get our share of recruits, but dominating the state in recruiting isn't going to happen anymore. Ag has raised the stakes, and we are pitching a worse product. The only way to truly neutralize that advantage is to take it away, and joining the SEC is the only way to do that.

    I also agree that we are probably stuck with the ****** situation that we are in...Dodds and Powers don't seem to be changing their minds, but after 10 years of future suckage in the Big 12 with Ag flying high, maybe they'll change their minds (or maybe they will have retired and we can get Texans in charge of the program). Joining the Pac 12 with OU, OSU and Tech would be a slight upgrade from what we have now, but again, the Ags will still have a better pitch to sell recruits and West Coasters hate Texans anyway. A patchwork Big 12 would also be better than what we have, but it also doesn't change the Ag pitch. God help us if we go Big 10 or Independent...those are nuclear options in my opinion. There just isn't a better solution to improving the fan experience, impressing recruits, and cutting the Ags' advantage than joining the SEC.

    I frankly am flabbergasted that the entire Horn fanbase hasn't come to this realization. What is truly disheartening is how much fun it would be for the fans again...I really think if we made the move, all of the boo-birds who are dissing the move would end up loving it. It would bring passion back to DKR, it would liven up the water cooler conversations at work, and it would make UT even more money than we are making now. With a playoff coming, we need to play tougher competition not weaker competition...we shouldn't be scared of the SEC. Like it or not, Texas is an SEC state now, and we should embrace it and join the party. Any Horn who can't see this is blind.
     
  10. Unques prist

    Unques prist 250+ Posts

    "Hire a real ******* Coach.

    Win ball games.

    That is all."

    That is the stone cold truth.

    The real problem is Texas is not committed to an elite FB program. Yes there is lip service, but the fact that MB is still coaching and apparently has the backing of the big donors says otherwise. DeLoss and Belmont care about $$$ and that is it. If Memorial was 1/2 full and donations were way down Brown would be gone. Simple as that.

    Also, the academic argument is just plain arrogance. No employer would interview a TX grad and say I am not impressed with your degree b/c TX is part of the SEC nor is the academic prestige diminished. TX deserves its declining FB program status as its is well earned - which makes me want to puke.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. jrotten

    jrotten 25+ Posts


     
  12. Alex_de_Large

    Alex_de_Large 1,000+ Posts

    That's exactly what I'm saying.
     
  13. Hook 'Em Danno

    Hook 'Em Danno 1,000+ Posts

    All of this talk about who "checkmated" who is premature. Way too small of a sample size to engage in such an analysis. Let's revisit the issue in about 5 years or so.
     
  14. aggressor

    aggressor 100+ Posts

    Agree on your points except the ease of Texas going to the SEC if it wanted to. A couple of years ago? Sure, not now. It was VERY significant that A&M got away without Tech, BU, and TCU when Texas bellowed about how the Big 12 would always exist as long as they were there. That was honestly the biggest mistake Texas made imo. You saw how desperate Baylor was to stop A&M going as it was, they will go nuclear if the Big 12 is imploding and they are left without a chair. That doesn't even count Tech which is a public school with more political clout. Texas played right into A&M's hands on that point and won't easily get out of those obligations. It's not like all the Aggies in the Leg are going to make it easier for Texas.

    The only way Texas gets in the SEC is by disbanding the LHN and somehow proving it is willing to be an equal partner in the SEC. Since A&M has left they have gone very much in the other direction. I don't see how those schools start trusting Texas and they would be foolish to with the current leadership. While Texas and/or OU might be a nice add to the SEC the SEC certainly doesn't need them. At all. Expanding East is a better option.

    I also think you gravely overestimate how much Aggies care about playing Texas anymore. Sure, we would like the game but we have definitely moved on. OOC would be one thing but having Texas back as a conference mate is something else entirely. A&M understands fully just how strong our hand is now.

    On top of all of that though, Texas really wouldn't fit culturally with the SEC at all. As much as A&M fits Texas does not for the same reasons. Cultural fit is much more important to the SEC than the Big 12. People joke about SEC unity but it is very real, I just don't see Texas being comfortable with that. The Big 12 does almost nothing collectively but the SEC does EVERYTHING collectively. It's a completely different mindset and I don't see a lot of Texas folks feeling chummy with people from Mississippi State or South Carolina.

    I truly think the "raid the ACC" model is the best path for Texas. I agree going Indy or Big 1G would be disastrous for many reasons. Texas has squandered a tremendous amount of power in the last few years and needs to stop the bleeding, they are in real danger of falling much farther than most Horns could imagine.
     
  15. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    It's possible that KSU gets in over ND, but I doubt it. Historical prestige plays a big part in these sorts of tiebreakers. On the other hand, preseason rankings matter too and KSU had the advantage there. In fact, for anyone not named Notre Dame I'd probably take the preseason advantage over the prestige advance (since preseason ratings are partly based on prestige anyway). But I just can't imagine an undefeated ND being left out without playing a mid-major type of schedule.


     
  16. PropositionJoe

    PropositionJoe 2,500+ Posts


     
  17. PropositionJoe

    PropositionJoe 2,500+ Posts


     
  18. AGHORNDAD

    AGHORNDAD < 25 Posts

    Texas and OU will always be wanted at someone's table. A&M went out and got their own place at a very good table. If the wheels come off the Big 12, (which was part of A&M's concern) I don't know where the rest of them will end up. I had doubts about A&M's decision. But it looks pretty brilliant right now.
     
  19. KazooMan

    KazooMan 250+ Posts


     
  20. JJxvi

    JJxvi 100+ Posts

    Kansas State may have played for a national title over Notre Dame just because they were ranked already in the preseason, but Texas A&M, particularly with Arkansas' implosion and no La Tech certainly would not have.
     
  21. BV Horn

    BV Horn 100+ Posts

    If KState and Oregon would have won out, that would have been your MNC game with ND on the outside looking in. But along came Baylor and Stanford on the same weekend, allowing for last night's game.
     
  22. Trusted Insider

    Trusted Insider 1,000+ Posts


     
  23. Alex_de_Large

    Alex_de_Large 1,000+ Posts


     
  24. Universal

    Universal 25+ Posts

    Aggressor:

    I agree with many of your points...the biggest impediment to UT joining the SEC is the elitist attitude of the administration and a portion of the fanbase...We are the Joneses'...nobody tells Texas what to do...the Ags and the SEC are nuckle-draggers, etc. I think Dodds and Powers would just assume we go independent so nobody would tell us what to do anymore. They mistakenly thought the LHN was going to be some bonanza of money and popularity...they were wrong...we'll get our money for the first term of the contract, but my suspicion is that ESPN will most likely pull the plug on (or modify) the LHN as soon as they can. Also, just wait until the Ags start rolling in more money than us...perhaps that will open up the eyes of the Board of Regents. Although Dodds and Powers thought they were doing the right thing, it has turned out to be a tactical mistake based on ego and greed.

    As for the LHN, as I understand it, Florida has its own network deal (not a true network, but something similar) for its third tier rights, so I think the LHN wouldn't be a huge impediment. Besides, the LHN hasn't turned out to be anything that the Ags need to worry about anyway.

    I also think that you overestimate the cultural difference...maybe 40 years ago it was an issue, but most of the southern flagships have students similiar to UT and aTm now...hell, a huge chunk of Houston kids who would have gone to UT in the past now go to LSU, Ole Miss, Georgia and other SEC schools, and OU and Arky have a ton of Texas kids enrolled (thank you top 10% rule). Ask all the billionaire UT alums who went to the Ole Miss game (minimun donation $8,000 for those tickets, by the way) how much they enjoyed it, and who doesn't love going to Louisiana for some food and fun (LSU games would be epic). In my career (oil business), I have worked with many high powered executives as well as blue collar workers...let me tell you, there are a lot of smart graduates from SEC schools, and we aren't much different from them than you think. Sure, the techies and hipsters working in Austin's computer industry probably don't mix well, but that's a small segment of the UT fanbase.

    The reality is that you are probably right, the SEC doesn't need UT or OU and both schools may need to move on. I would argue, however, that folks may change their mind after the next 10 years go by...I seem to be one of the few Hornfans that sees the power that the SEC gives the Ags and it pisses me off. Those of you living in Houston already know this...the SEC expansion into Texas has already happened, and the Ags are taking control of Houston. That is 50% of the best recruiting in the state...it won't stop there. That should scare the hell out of UT fans. The future is always hard to predict, but it doesn't take a genius to see that the Ags played a strong card and we let it happen.
     
  25. Unques prist

    Unques prist 250+ Posts

    "I also think that you overestimate the cultural difference...maybe 40 years ago it was an issue, but most of the southern flagships have students similiar to UT and aTm now"

    Absolutely true. I met a really smart cute girl in DC back in Dec 2011. She was a GA grad. However, she told me she was on her way to Austin to check to Texas, but got tired of driving and stopped in Athens. Loved it and matriculated there.
     
  26. NEWDOC2002

    NEWDOC2002 1,000+ Posts


     
  27. Larry T. Spider

    Larry T. Spider 1,000+ Posts


     
  28. Trusted Insider

    Trusted Insider 1,000+ Posts


     
  29. mandingo

    mandingo 2,500+ Posts

    Texas is not in "the south". It's Texas.
     
  30. Universal

    Universal 25+ Posts

    I haven't heard one suggestion by any of the SEC boo birds about improving the fan experience. The Big 12 sucks...look at our home schedule this year...the best game on it is Ole Miss! None of the other conferences can provide the excitement and passion that SEC games could provide in DKR. To have great games and stick it to the Ags in the process would be a checkmate move. I am baffled that so many of you don't get that.
     

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