R's back gay marriage

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Larry T. Spider, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. Larry T. Spider

    Larry T. Spider 1,000+ Posts


     
  2. Larry T. Spider

    Larry T. Spider 1,000+ Posts

  3. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I'm a relatively young (36 years old) voter, and though social issues don't drive my votes, I'm pro-life and against gay marriage. However, I pretty well concede defeat on gay marriage. (I don't concede defeat on abortion.) Furthermore, most younger conservatives I know (even those who are pro-life) are at most indifferent on gay marriage.

    The public clearly wants it, and they're going to get it. Furthermore, though from a legal standpoint I think states have the right to define marriage as they choose, they don't have the right to deny recognition of gay marriages solemnized in other states. Nevertheless, once we go down this road, there's no rational argument left to deny polygamous marriages.

    From a political standpoint, I think this is one of these issues on which the GOP is going to be split. Northeastern and West Coast Republican groups will start to support it to help rebuild their viability. Southern GOP groups will always oppose it but once the Supreme Court rules in favor of it, the southern groups will acquiesce.
     
  4. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts

    Gay marriage is pretty much inevitable in the U.S. I guess polygamy is the next hurdle?
     
  5. Roger

    Roger 1,000+ Posts


     
  6. Larry T. Spider

    Larry T. Spider 1,000+ Posts

    Just to clarify my earlier post about social issues - I don't lump abortion in with other social issues.
     
  7. SyracuseHorn

    SyracuseHorn 500+ Posts

    Roger - In the 2012 elections, civil rights for gays won 4-0 on ballot measures in Maine, Washington, Maryland, and Minnesota. The public has been voting for it.


     
  8. CanaTigers

    CanaTigers 2,500+ Posts

    If put to a National vote it would fail overwhelmingly even with the small portion of citizens that would bother to vote. If everyone was forced to vote it would be an even larger failure. It is not nearly as popular as it is made it out to be, the pro gay marriage side is just more vocal.
     
  9. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin


     
  10. NEWDOC2002

    NEWDOC2002 1,000+ Posts

    You mean extend rights and benefits bestowed by the state. No one tells jim and johnny that they cant put rings on their fingers and get "married"
     
  11. saahorn

    saahorn 250+ Posts

    Since when do we put basic civil rights to a national referendum?
     
  12. Larry T. Spider

    Larry T. Spider 1,000+ Posts

    I just haven't heard an argument against legalizing gay marriage that outweighs the benefit to the committed couples. Most arguments I hear have some element of "it's just not right" involved. My standard for banning something is much higher than right and wrong. Plenty of things are wrong that we choose not to ban. Most of those things have no victim, much like gay marriage. I also hear many arguments against gay marriage that are religious in nature. We can look all over the world for reasons not to ban things based on religion. Im always open to hearing a good argument but it has to go beyond "gays are icky".
     
  13. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin


     
  14. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    i'm not sure I've heard anyone make the argument that gays shouldn't be afforded the same rights and privileges as those who enter into marriages. (I'm sure SOMEONE has, but I've never seen that become part of any GOP legislation or party platform). This issue typically centers around compelling people of all faiths to change their definition of marriage.

    Honest question: what is the distinction between "marriage" and "civil union"? What rights does one afford that the other does not?
     
  15. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet


     
  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet


     
  17. EasternHorn

    EasternHorn 500+ Posts

    So far, two people on this thread have mentioned polygamy being next. I completely disagree with that.

    First, wanting to marry several women is not the same as being born gay. Totally different circumstances. And it will never have the public or legislative support.

    Second, legalizing polygamy is not granting equal protection under the law. It would be granting different rules altogether. Things like tax filing, inheritance laws, citizenship sponsorship, social security, etc. would have to be rewritten for them. No new rules are needed for gay marriage.

    And, I find the idea that people are afraid that churches will be forced to perform same sex marriages to be ridiculous. With respect to Mr. Deez's post, I think separation of church and state would and should trump any new marriage rules. If not, then we need to separate out a church marriage and the civil ceremony for everyone.
     
  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet


     
  19. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts


     
  20. EasternHorn

    EasternHorn 500+ Posts

    Mr. Deez, I respect your opinions (as opposed to so many other posters on West Mall), but still disagree about polygamy. Public opinion does matter....even to the Supreme Court. Obviously, it is not the most important factor, but it does come into play. I would argue that if Science could prove that homosexuality was strickly a choice and not something people are born with, the advancement of gay rights would be nowhere near where it is today.

    I also completely disagree that from a legal standpoint Polygamist have a valid claim for equal protection. The Federal Government grants certain rights and privileges to married couples. Gay couples want to same thing. Polygamists want something different.

    And, to clarify, I absolutely do NOT want the Supreme Court to force churches to marry gay couples. I think that is a horrible idea. I was only trying to say that if that does happen, we then need to separate out marriages from civil unions.

    I also wanted to comment on one other thing you said:

     
  21. EasternHorn

    EasternHorn 500+ Posts


     
  22. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet


     
  23. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin


     
  24. n64ra

    n64ra 1,000+ Posts


     
  25. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 2,500+ Posts


     
  26. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Thanks for the clarification, but you didn't really answer my question.
     
  27. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest

    Someone tell me this: Why does it matter whether a person is born gay or chooses to become gay?

    What difference does it make?
     
  28. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet


     
  29. EasternHorn

    EasternHorn 500+ Posts


     
  30. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest


     

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