Manziel: Texas-Texas AM not rivalry anymore

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by bck031, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. bck031

    bck031 1,000+ Posts

    I think Bama and LSU plan for Manziel this season.
     
  2. PropositionJoe

    PropositionJoe 2,500+ Posts

    LSU planned quite well for him last year, and kingsbury couldnt adjust.

    i think our offense will look slightly different this year under mckinney/spavital.
     
  3. FireRC

    FireRC 500+ Posts

    Do you really believe Bama and LSU didn't game plan for him?
     
  4. Trusted Insider

    Trusted Insider 1,000+ Posts


     
  5. TheGallopinGoose

    TheGallopinGoose 2,500+ Posts


     
  6. bck031

    bck031 1,000+ Posts

    I think A&M looses a game they should win this year.
     
  7. Zona Horn

    Zona Horn 500+ Posts

    Hu,

    I agree that aTm's home schedule basically sucks this year. They play Bama and then 7 mediocre schools. That is their problem. I am more worried about our pathetic schedule and the fact that there is no buzz in Austin on Saturdays these days. Putting aTm back on the schedule would help fix that.

    Moreover, you are kind of missing my point. I agree that, in recent years, KSU, TTech and OSU have been good teams and tough games. (I am not sure if any will be ranked this year given their departures, but they are all decent programs at the moment). The problem is they are not big name programs or marquee schools -- indeed, KSU was the losingest program in college football for 40 years, and OSU was close. Our fans simply don't give a damn about any of those schools, and the national media gives us no credit when we beat them.

    Conversely, aTm at least gets to play schools that "sound" pretty good, like Arky and Auburn. Those schools have actually been worse than KSU or OSU for much of the past decade, but the average UT fan would be a lot more fired up to play them than KSU or OSU (and Auburn actually won/bought a MNC just 2 years ago). Moroever, while it is infrequent, aTm will also get to play Florida or Georgia at home once every three years. So, they get big name LSU and Bama every year, and add UF or Georgia about every other year. We get OU and a bunch of schools from the plains that have historically sucked and have a hard time selling out 50,000 seat stadiums.

    It helps a bit that we are trying to bring in USC and Cal and ND. But that is only 1 game a year. When you HAVE to play Baylor, ISU, WVU, KU, KSU, OSU, TCU, TTech and 2 OOC cupcakes every year, that is about 10 games that you can almost guarantee that College Gameday won't be hosting, before the season even starts. Even when they are good, those other schools simply don't move the needle nationally for college football fans, much less for our home fans in Austin.

    Hell, that was a big part of why Okie State didn't get to play in the MNC game when by all accounts they deserved it more than Bama did. Had a USC or UT or OU or tOSU or Oregon or Michigan or even a school like Ucla or Michigan State or Wisconsin had the same record and a conference title as Okie State did in 2011, they would have gotten the MNC nod over a 1-loss division runner up like Bama. But since it was (historically irrelevant) Okie State from the Big 12, they got screwed by the voters and there was little uproar about the injustice of it. Since it was Okie State, nobody cared that they got screrwed and the media was happy to see it happen.
     
  8. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    ATM will lose at least 4 games this year, No Swopes, No Joeckel, how many starters on a medicore defense are gone? They will lose at least 4 games this year. They will lose to Alabama and then another one they shouldn't and that will start the annual Aggy slide back to mediocrity(sp).
     
  9. SectionThree

    SectionThree 500+ Posts

    "The return of the MOB"? Will the corps turds draw their sabres and challenge the nerds to
    a duel at the 50? Texans know what to expect from aggy.... the sec is still in the learning
    stages and will be asking "WTF did we do" in the near future. Going to be fun to read their
    message boards, going forward. It's like we put our trash out on the street for pick-up and
    the sec grabbed it.
     
  10. FireRC

    FireRC 500+ Posts


     
  11. Hu_Fan

    Hu_Fan Guest

    Think I see your points Zona Horn. I'm about to come over to the other side anyway. Just holding off for a while mostly.

    On the SEC schedule I thought I heard it would take a number of years to rotate through all the opposite division programs.

    So now I just read this ... "The SEC already voted on keeping its 6-1-1 format that features six division games, one permanent cross-division rivalry and one rotating cross-division game when the format was voted on in June at the SEC spring meetings." Winners and Losers of the 2013 SEC Football Schedule bleacherreport.com/articles/1376163-winners-and-losers-of-the-2013-sec-football-schedule

    That makes it seem even worse: 6-1-1 would mean a locked in permanent cross-division rival with only 1 remaining cross-division team to play out of the total of 7 (14-team conference).

    Whether those remaining teams are home-and-home (meaning play them 2 straight seasons before moving on to another team), I'm perplexed how, in this case, A&M will play those teams that often over even a 4 or 6 year spread. At least at home.

    Back on point... the way things have gone for this past season and winter and spring for both A&M and Texas, and the damn near doom and gloom here, why not put them back on schedule?!

    The whole scene down at a game is lackluster. I had season tickets the past two years and honestly am not even interested in going to any of the games at all this year. I did not enjoy a single outing to any game last year, and the whole buzz around game day has become little more than a drunken hell-raising loud-amped-music affair. I have to stop and think for a moment who the game is being played against, as the buzz of the actual matchup is in last place in one's thoughts, much less anticipating any glory of the team on the field.

    So, why the hell not! How about putting them in as a September game? Fair weather, everyone in town, early enough game it might be a regular Game Day affair.

    Go for it!
     
  12. notanative

    notanative 1,000+ Posts


     
  13. notanative

    notanative 1,000+ Posts


     
  14. RDV-1992

    RDV-1992 25+ Posts

    The MOB at Kyle is going to be lots of fun. I'm looking forward to that game.

    I don't think A&M will have as good a football team this year as last. Our defensive front 7 is a huge concern. We have 2 defensive tackles with collegiate experience. 1 is currently suspended, the other is coming off of a major injury. Our true freshman starter at DE from last year has been out for months with a serious back injury. We are starting a converted wide receiver at outside linebacker this spring. Our depth throughout the front 7 is mostly redshirt or true freshmen. All that adds up to getting punished at the line of scrimmage by teams that run better than they pass.

    Plus I have expectations for the team this year. Historically that is a kiss of death. Usually the only Aggie teams that do well are the ones I don't expect much out of.
     
  15. Universal

    Universal 25+ Posts

    Zona is right and DeLoss Dingbat was wrong. I get that many UT fans/alums are glad to be rid of the Gomers...their antics and hatred towards anything burnt orange was tiresome and juvenile. The same could be said for the Hogs back in the SWC. But ask yourself who did you enjoy beating more...the Ags and Hogs, or the Bears, Raiders, and Horned Frogs?

    We've lost two of our most hated rivals to the SEC, and hated rivals are what makes the games fun. I don't care about any of the teams in the Big 12 except OU. I'm not alone...DKR was dead for most of the games last year and will continue to be dead with the exception of the rare highly ranked team playing us. We've lost the passion of the game in order to have a network that virtually nobody watches. Dodds must go and we have to fix our situation somehow. Whether we expand the Big 12 or join another conference, we have to get the passion back. I'm in favor of getting the Gomers back on the schedule when Dodds retires...I hate them with a passion, which makes beating them all the more fun.
     
  16. RDV-1992

    RDV-1992 25+ Posts

    From a Aggie perspective: I thought that I would hate A&M in the SEC. I was against the move. Then last year happened. Our success was a pleasant surprise. But that's not what I am talking about. The lack of venom in the water cooler banter last season was great. I could talk to collegues without insults being traded. It was a nice change, as I never enjoyed that.

    Also, I had fun watching SEC games - I never cared about them before, but now I was trying to get to know the teams, places, etc.

    Finally, Big 12 football is really entertaining. That was also a discovery. I know all the teams, coaches, storylines, etc. But without a dog in the hunt, I could watch the games and just appreciate them, versus wondering how a win or loss by Team x would help or hurt A&M. The KSU v. Baylor game was a great one. So were OSU versus UT and WVU versus UT.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  17. Zona Horn

    Zona Horn 500+ Posts

    Hu --

    I forgot that SEC was 6-1-1 instead of 6-2. Good catch. Obviously, aTm will be getting UF at home less frequently then -- only once every 12 years since S. Carolina is their cross-division "rival". Florida and LSU get screwed in that system as they have to play each other every year, while Bama gets lowly Tennessee, and Ole Miss/Vandy and MSU/Kentucky get each other. Stupid syterm as none of those are really "rivals" and it punishes some teams over others. (LSU fans will tell you that Bama people control scheduling). I obviously agree that gameday in Austin blows. Adding aTm will help some, but the long term solution is to get into a better conference. Deloss pretty much screwed that up, all for a television network nobody can get and Espn will probably abandon soon. (For people who say they can't becuase our $15 M per year is "guaranteed", google the phrase "efficient breach" or spend a little time talking to a commercial litigator. They can get out of that deal any time they want to and it won't cost them much).

    Notantive --

    You will get no dispute from me that the system is flawed (and heavily biased toward the SEC, Espn's most importnant business partner). And I would further agree that KSU is "good competition" from the perspective of being (currently) a good team that is capable of beating us (just check our record against them),

    However, if you are talking about "good competition" in the sense of big name, historically powerful programs that our fans get up for and that generate large national ratings and for which we get huge credit when we beat them, then KSU, Baylor, Okie State, TTech, TCU, etc are indistinguishable from Kentucky or Utah or Northwestern or Rutgers or Wake Forrest (many of whom have likewise had some good seasons in the past decade). Even when those schools put a few good years together, nobody outside of their (small) fanbases gives a damn. And our home fans could clearly care less when we play/beat Baylor or Okie State in a typical year.

    The OU game is a big game. The aTma nd Arky games used to be. Non-conference games against tOSU and ND and USC were/will be big games. But even when they are good, games against KSU and Iowa State will never be big games where the stadium is packed, the fans are rabid, and the Gameday crew are in house and pumping UT to the wider national audience.

    Again, the only fix for that is to get into a better confernce and replace our "upper middle" schools (like KSU, Okie State, Baylor, ISU, TTech, etc) with "upper middle" programs that are more relevant and have a better national recognition, respect and following (like aTm, Auburn, Arky and Ole Miss from the SEC, or MSU, Iowa, Wisconsin and Penn State from the B1G, or Ucla, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington from the Pac 12). It would also help if our conference had more than 2 "premier" programs, with a huge dropoff to the next best historical program. Indeed, I am not sure if there is another Big 12 program in the Top 40 all time after UT and OU. Who would the 3rd best program be, historically? TTech, TCU, OSU, WVU, Baylor, KSU, etc have all spent most of the past 60 years as sub-.500 programs, often in 2nd tier conferences. Yes, some of those schools have had mostly winning seasons for the past decade, but it will take a few more decades of that before their national perception moves into the "plus" category, much less generate the fan interest tyo justify expanding their stadiums beyond the 50,000 that most of them currently hold (and have a hard time selling out).
     
  18. Zona Horn

    Zona Horn 500+ Posts

    I just read through several articles that attempted to rank the Top 50 programs of all time, based on things like total wins (UM and UT are both top 3), winning %, national championships (Cal has won 5!), conference championships, Heismans, etc. While none of the rankings can be considered dispositive, they were all pretty similar.

    In terms of the highest % of teams in the Top 50, the Big 10 and Pac 12 led with 9 of 12 making the list (75%). The SEC was next, with 9 of 14 making the list (64%), but all 9 of those were in the Top 25 (including aTm and Ole Miss, which seemed a bit high, though Ole Miss was good in the 50's and 60's). The Big 12 has 6 of 10 in the Top 50 (60%), but only 2 of those are in the Top 25 (UT and OU). Meanwhile, the SEC had 9 in the Top 25, and the Big 10 and the Pac 12 both had 5.

    What really jumped out is how many Top 25 all time programs have LEFT the Big 12, inlcuding Nebraska (8th), aTm (21st) and CU (24th), although that was mitigated to some extent by decent replacements in TCU (30th) and WVU (32nd).

    Anyway, if UT were to bolt for one of the other 3 conferences, it would end up playing 3-4 Top 25 all time programs every year, instead of just 1 in OU. That would help the qyuality of our home schedule and the gameday atmosphere in Austin out tremendlously.
     
  19. LonghornCatholic

    LonghornCatholic Deo Gratias


     
  20. Universal

    Universal 25+ Posts

    Zona

    You are nailing it...I think most Horns have finally come to the realization that Dodds screwed the pooch on realignment big time. The question is what do we do to fix it.

    Expanding requires leftovers from the Big 10 and SEC after they attack the ACC, and there's no guarantee they'll join. Joining the Big 10 isolates us in a rust belt conference. The Pac is better than what we have, but by no means perfect. Joining the SEC would require ESPN to send all the Big 12 and LHN money and getting the votes. What is the best option?
     
  21. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    We ceased to be sports rivals after the last game was played at Kyle field. Sure, I hate ags, and wish them evil. But the kid is essentially correct.

    Until we resume competition on the field, the rivalry stuff is a mute point.
     
  22. Zona Horn

    Zona Horn 500+ Posts

    Universal --

    I think the best option WOULD have been either to (1) do whatever was necessary to keep the original Big 12 together, which actually had 5 of the Top 25 all time programs in it (3 of which are now gone), or (2) kept aTm on the reservation for the initial move to the Pac 10 with OU and OSU, ditching TTech and the rest of the weak sister Big 12 teams in the process. If under Option 1 we would have had to ditch the LHN or modify it somehow, so be it.

    Under Option 2 we would have kept our two most important traditional rivals, affiliated with a prestigious (and wealthy) conference of like-minded flagship AAU members, and added rivalries and big games with the likes of USC, Oregon, Ucla, Stanford, Washinton, etc, many of which are great road trips and prestigious schools to boot. There was another version of Option 2 that would have added CU (good) and TTech (bad) that I would have been fine with, but I (and the Pac 10) would actually prefer KU to TTech since it is a much better school academically and also boasts a Top 5 hoops program, while TTech basically adds nothing athletically and is a 4th Tier academic school.

    Unfortunately, due to hubris, Dodds' sharp elbows and LHN fetish, aTm's inferiority complex and desire to not be UT's kid brother anymore, Nebraska's sour grapes about Texas, UT's unwillingness to sign up for the Pac 10's equal revenue sharing principle, etc, neither Option 1 nor Option 2 took place, and are no longer possible. UT/Dodds/LHN deserve a lot of the blame for that, but there is plenty to go around.

    At this point I don;t think there is a good option left. By assigning our rights to the Big 12, we are pretty much stuck for the next several years as I understand it. No school worth a bucket of warm spit will join the Big 12-4+2, with its disfunctional relationships, hatreds and petty jealousies, bizarre regional affiliations, mediocre academic schools, unequal revenue sharing, and general instability and perceived vulnerability. The simple fact is, the B1G, SEC and Pac 12 are powerful, rich, and prestigious enough to be the raiders, and the Big 12 is stuck with the Big East (RIP) and the ACC as the raidees. That will be Deloss Dodds' most enduring legacy.
     
  23. Universal

    Universal 25+ Posts

    Zona:

    I agree with you that the old Big 12 was best, but that was a shotgun marriage that just couldn't survive long term, and it's no use being wistful regarding the past. However, I don't think we are out of options...we just have to be patient and play our cards quietly until the GOR is up.

    Now that we know the LHN will never be the monster network DD thought it would be (thus, going independent won't work), we hate our conference schedule as fans, and the SEC, Big 10 and Pac 12 have solidified their positions with their own networks, we should be making plans for joining the best conference when the GOR is up...we are a free agent at that point. Ditching the LHN and getting into one of the power conferences would be better than sticking in the crappy Big 12 conference, both monetarily and as a fan wanting better games to watch.

    There is a lot of discussion about which option is best, and many people disagree. I think that Big 12 expansion would be better than what we have but would still be a shotgun marriage of schools with no conference network...not exactly the best situation. I personally think the Big 10 just doesn't fit us at all, so only the Pac or SEC makes sense. I personally would like to be in the SEC but see that option as very unlikely even if ESPN shifts the Big 12 and LHN tv money over to the SEC and tries to entice the SEC with big $$$$. Thus, it seems to me that joining the Pac with three other schools (amongst OU, OSU, Tech and Kansas) would be the easiest option and most palatable to the fanbase overall.

    After 10 more years of crappy conference games and watching the other conference teams make more tv money (they will pass us in tv money over time), I'm hoping the administration comes to its senses and has us positioned to move when the GOR is up.



    The LHN is the real problem because it prevents us from joining a better conference and prevents any team from wanting to join the Big 12. I refuse to believe that we can't improve the situation long term. Of course, we are stuck until the Grant of Rights expires, but that shouldn't prevent us from setting our course in motion now.
     
  24. Zona Horn

    Zona Horn 500+ Posts

    Good points Universal. I can't recall when the GOR expires or how prohibitive the buyout is, but the longer it takes the more damage will be done.

    The problem with Big 12 expansion is no decent schools are interested. The obvious choices are the schools that left and schools like LSU, Arky, etc. None of them will come. That means you are lookin at schools like Louisville and BYU, or maybe a regional hopscotch with FSU and Miami if the ACC implodes. None of those are great options, frankly.

    I also think the LHN has another year or so to get viable before Espn pulls the plug. We will really have shot ourselves in the foot if/when that happens.

    We'll see I guess. Color me dubious on us getting into a better situation any time soon.
     
  25. Universal

    Universal 25+ Posts

    Totally agree...we are stuck until the Grant of Rights is up (I believe 12 more years). I was one of the few Hornfans that saw the LHN as a disaster coming and that it would stick us in a bad conference. DD will go down as the idiot that royally screwed UT over a delusional notion that a single school network could succeed. The so called $300MM deal will end up being a fraction of that and nobody can watch it...epic fail.

    Again, the big cigars and fanbase are finally seeing the light, and aTm's success will only pour gas on the fire. We should be working back channels to fix our situation as soon as DD retires (rumored as 2014), and we must be careful about who the next AD is...it can't be one of his underlings or a Big 12 lover.
     
  26. Zona Horn

    Zona Horn 500+ Posts


     
  27. Hu_Fan

    Hu_Fan Guest

    Agree, agree, agree on this last string of posts.
     
  28. Universal

    Universal 25+ Posts

    I got lambasted too and only started posting again this year after seeing what happened last fall. There are still a lot of fans that think a new coach can turn things around, which may be true, but the fan experience will still be lacking and our tv money will get passed up. I think that several more years of crappy conference games and the failure of the LHN will eventually get all fans on board with a move.

    Adding ACC remnants should only occur if they are football powerhouses, otherwise, we should move to the Pac after the GOR expires. The key though is we need DD to retire/get fired and make sure the big cigars and fan base are all united in fixing DD's errors. The Ags screamed about going to the SEC and their administration listened. We need to do the same.
     
  29. Hu_Fan

    Hu_Fan Guest

    While I was among those decrying the audacity of Aggie's move, I will admit there is great value in the attitude of simply making bold moves.

    A&M, for all the blasting they got, did defy the norm, and their AD, President and an incoming Regent, said to hell with anything and everything and "Just Do It."

    An attitude and spirit solely lacking at UT these days, while the attitude instead was to lock in a really stupid isolated television agreement, all probably based on the final 19 seconds of the 2006 Rose Bowl Game as if that was going to be the norm for UT excitement for the next 20 years.

    Instead, the norm 'around these here parts' turned out to be an 11-2 Maroon and White season, defeat of Crimson Tide on their home turf, and Heisman Johnny Manziel.

    Who's your daddy now? [​IMG]
     

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