Really concerned about this. I worry this will grow into a much larger national problem. I would typically fall on the anti-government side, but I am still looking into the facts of this situation. Militias are moving in though which signals much larger potential problems. I look forward to all perspectives. The Link
If it is as reported , that the Fed gov't owns the land versus the state of Nevada owing it the Bundy is wrong to not pay grazing fees but the Feds are wrong in the way they have handled it and look silly trying to make it about a so called endangered turtle You don't want your federal government tasing citizens for nothing more than stepping outside an " First Amendment zone" or siccing dogs on women Bundy should pay the grazing fees or remove his cattle I hope the feds did not kill any of his cattle NOTE, the Feds jut backed off and opened the land back up to the public Bundy still should pay grazing fees
Nice story breaks out about Harry Reid and the Chinese (which is being represented by Harry's son and Harry's ex staff member is head of the BLM) trying to grab the land. Story came out and all of a sudden the BLM backs away and says the land is now public. Coincidence?
Here's a map I pulled a while back on government lands. Can't remember the link. If/when I find it I"ll post it. In addition to these lands, the federal gov't owns a vast amount of hard (buildings) real estate. Image if all it were sold/released to the private sector. Pay off a chunk of national debt. Allow positive use of the land. Staggering to realize an entity" called government owns this much surface and subsurface of a country...
It would take a century to sell that much land off properly. Dump it all on the market too quickly and it becomes worthless and wouldn't pay off much debt. I do agree with beginning that process though. They don't need an entire state like Nevada.
Maybe if I can get a few hundred "citizens" to bring their deer rifles over to my place I can get the feds to back down and I won't have to pay my taxes for the next twenty years.
The federal government should not have control of this much land that they then turn around and let private individuals profit from. Any federal land should be open to the public like the parks for a fee for anyone and everyone to use equally. Federal lands should not should be allowed to be leased for cattle, timber, oil or any other private business purposes.
"Historical rights"? Based only on the story it appears the Cliven guy is illegally using federal land for his own personal profit. The government appears to have exhausted its legal means to stop him. Cliven had options to pay for grazing rights and chose not to do so. The militias moving in to help him are idiots looking for any excuse to confront the feds. I don't have a problem with the tazing or the lady that was knocked down in the video. She made a quick move to get in front of a moving truck and was rightly pushed backward by the agent. There are plenty of things to protest about the federal government. Having them judiciously protect all of rights to federal land use is not one, at least in this case. Looking at that map, I'm shocked by how few national parks there are East of the Rockies. I was enjoying a tremendous hike in one here in Washington yesterday.
"they" don't own the land, we do. It is the birthright, collectively, of all of us. Which is why it is ok within limits to lease it but not ok to hold a garage sale and give it away to timber companies, anarchist ranchers and mining companies. The ignorance of history and lack of social responsibility of some yahoos on this board is just amazing. Read some Teddy Roosevelt on the public lands. Read the economics concept of The Tragedy of the Commons.
So you think that America is a Tinder Box, like dry grass lands that only need a spark to explode? I wish that were true. At some point what remains of the middle class is going to have to rise up and reign in the liberal insanity.
Cana - I thought we were talking energy. That is pretty cheap grazing rates. However, I'm not sure these ranchers can be called "the select few" unless it's Ted Turner or the equivalent. I think anywhere in Texas is going to be somewhat expensive as all the land is at such a premium (not even counting the drought effect). I have family in another state (I won't say which since it's embarrassing) and a lot of those pastures are leased just for what is owed in taxes.
Heard on the radio that BLM decided that they were getting a black eye out of this deal and slunk back into the shadows, withdrawing their Sturmtruppen for now. And the BLM needs sniper teams because why? Isn't it amazing how our government doesn't want us armed, but they are armed to the f@%king teeth? Just the opposite of what the founding fathers envisioned.
Does the BLM have sniper teams? Based on the limited footage I saw there were multiple law enforcement agencies involved. Do you find it acceptable for a group of armed citizens to prevent the government from enforcing the law? Based on this thread it appears that even the right leaning posters agree that Bundy is breaking the law.
I am still trying to gather facts on this, but it looks like the rancher is in the wrong and the BLM is over-stepping its tactics in collecting the money. It appears the Harry Reid link is bogus, but it opened up other ethical issues for that jackass. Why not just arrest the rancher? Regardless, this situation had a strong possibility of igniting widespread violence across the nation. The majority of those who showed up were fringe element, but there is a significant number of citizens fed up with government over-reach. I think it is coming, just hopeful it can be done by the states through constitutional means.
He has no legal standing. It does not make it "right" but not sure what his argument is. If he is willing to pay the state of Nevada, pay the US Government.
Occams Razor and all that. I tend to think that if the BLM had authority to arrest him they would have rather than go the much more costly and dangerous route of confiscating his cattle. People don't get arrested for not paying their taxes but rather the government puts liens on their property or confiscates it. In this case they are confiscating the cattle. The other angle is arresting him would turn him into a martyr. I haven't read any information that puts the BLM in the wrong at all. In fact, they probably showed TOO much patience in dealing with this gentleman. Their patience of exhausting all legal means allowed him to organize a militia backed response. Again, the lesson learned is that you can violate non-felonious laws and get away with it as long as you have a group of gun-toting militia to back you up. Anarchy 1, Law and Order 0.
First, nice post. So I do not have to pay my taxes? His argument is that his family has been doing this longer than the US government has existed.I empathize with him, but I do not agree with him.
