Cheney has expressed on many many occasions how much it meant to him that we prevented another 9/11 attack using information CIA people gleaned from EIT. If that makes him seem giddy to some Heck then all if us should be giddy happy that there wasn't a repeat of the 9/11 attack.
I'm pretty sure we beat the Nazis. All that "would you like a cigarette" good Nazi charade couldn't prevent the Army Air Corps from turning Dresden into the world's largest barbecue pit.
A report out today states ISIS beheaded 4 Christian children. Children. While torture might not have been appropriate 50 years ago, this is a different enemy and different war. I say all means possible to wipe these inhuman monsters off the face of the earth. And while we are at it, leave the U.S. Military decisions during war to the U.S. Military. These wars would take a lot less time and result in fewer US casualties if political correctness was left out of the decision making process. If your family member was being held by ISIS under threat of beheading, would you be in favor of water boarding someone who had information on where that family member was?
Dems/libs insist that the U.S. surrender to its enemies so that it will show that the U. S. wants to "just get along". We are just a bunch of meanies to resist national suicide. ......
I wouldn't go duck hunting with him. He has had a long and distinguished career. Paso, do you think being part of the HW Bush defense department that kept the first Iraq mission short and sweet was wrong I guess?
Did you actually read my entire post? There is a title and then a single sentence. The single sentence might be applicable here.
Cheney Calls for International Ban on Torture Reports “I ask all the great nations of the world to stand up, expose the horrible practice of publishing torture reports, and say, ‘This is not who we are,’ ” Cheney said.
Tex2000, I really don't give a **** if we waterboarded anybody or whether it's "torture" or not. Hell, I wouldn't care if we burned these guys at the stake. The problem is that we ********. We claim not to do this sort of thing and sign onto treaties saying we don't. Let's cut the crap. If it's to our benefit to torture terror suspects or informants, then let's legalize the practice and do it.
a couple of interesting and sometimes conflicting items. less than 10 of the nations signing the UN convention against torture have been accused of violating it. Can anyone say that torture as performed by Syria and radical Islamic countries and the use of EIT as performed by the USA are equal? For those who think the EIT including the form of waterboarding used on 3 terrorists is torture nothing will change that mindset. It looks remarkably like white guilt and appears necessary to those adherent. back to being accused of torture does anyone find it Ludacris that Iran and North Korea accuse the USA of torture?
Paso- I am curious. You seem to feel pretty strongly about torture and especially Cheney. Obama is killing innocent children (blowing them to bits) with drone strikes. Do you consider killing innocent children a greater evil than pouring water over an adult combatant? If so, what have you done to speak out against Obama and this practice?
Dresden had military value and the rail marshaling yards were near the city center. The US bombed or tried to bomb the rail yards using radar and mostly hit the city center by accident. It is more difficult to defend what the British did at night, but they could only bomb at night for most of the war.
Paso, almost every major city arguably has some military value. But how much did it really have? By the time the Allies bombed it, both the Red Army and the western Allies were on the move with no realistic chance of being stopped. If it was so valuable, then why not bomb it earlier in the war when victory was far less certain?
Deez is right that we should do everything we can to save American lives, especially if the other person is some ISIS AQ scumbug. While I can see how some may disagree, and I don't think we should throw people under the bus for doing their best to save American lives...falling on one's sword might be a necessary sacrifice intel officers know theh must make...to be disavowed in a sense, so we can protect the country's honor. Like Batman in the Dark Knight. I think there's quiet nobility in that. That may just be how intelligence is suppose to work. We are lucky to have "bad guys" like Dick Cheney. Every team needs a goon to do the dirty work. Here's a guy who hasn't just supported but lobied for same sex marriage equality, which I personally have mixed views on but still respect his opinion, who will freaking waterboard thugs who rape, enslave, and chop off the heads of little girls so they don't hurt anyone again. And yet, liberals label him a monster. Sometimes you need a goon on your side.
My post was in response to your claim that the Soviets were on the move and could not be stopped. Dresden was a key staging area for the German defense of Upper Silesia (I think this is the name of the area which is now Poland). It was not utterly senseless particularly what the 8th Army Air Force tried to do. I am more troubled by what the British did.
Paso, I understand what you're saying. It wasn't "utterly senseless," and it no doubt weakened the Wehrmacht to some degree. However, had it not been done, it wouldn't have changed or significantly altered the final outcome. By the time the bombings were in full swing, the Red Army was already in Germany and hadn't had a significant setback in a very long time. In addition the facilities of military significance (many of which weren't even targeted) could have been knocked out without firebombing the city center, which was the core of the controversy. There was no meaningful attempt to keep from killing civilians, and you are correct that most of that was the work of the RAF, not the US. To me it's harder to defend than the nuclear attacks on Japan. Those also claimed to be of military significance, but like the Dresden bombings, they primarily damaged enemy morale by terrorizing the civilian population. Nevertheless, the nuclear attacks happened before we set one foot on the Japanese mainland and likely eliminated the need for an invasion, which means it most likely saved far more lives than it ended. That can't be said of the Dresden bombings. The invasions from the East and the West were already in full swing, and the war was almost over.
Most articualte oped on the subject. These lay out almost to a tee all of my positions but from a guy, AG Mukasey, who actuallly knows how to write and stuff. www.wsj.com/articles/michael-b-mukasey-the-cia-interrogations-followed-the-law-1418773648?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_opinion
Interesting article, and I understand the AG's point, but my understanding is that more than waterboarding was involved.
"There is no doubt that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, against us." ---- DIck Cheney, August 2002
