Are Obama/Holder/de Blasio Culpable In Cop Killings?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Clean, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts


     
  2. dillohorn

    dillohorn Guest

    Stirring the hate and racial division. That's what they do.
     
  3. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 2,500+ Posts

    I was wondering which would come first: a thread from the left arguing that the law-enforcement community brought this on itself by failing to prosecute cops vigorously, or this thread.

    So long as each side is more interested in pointing fingers than it is in finding solutions, things won't get better. Like it or not, a very substantial portion of the minority community feels that the police are working against them, not for them. So long as that perception remains -- whether the president and other politicians talk about it or not -- occasional acts of senseless violence will happen. We need to either do something about it, or get used to it.
     
  4. huisache

    huisache 2,500+ Posts

    I don't think the actions of the cops in Ferguson and Staten Island were inappropriate but there is a fair amount of police over reaction and it is not limited to black subjects. The Police Chief in Corpus hammered a couple of his officers last week for beating the snot out of a guy who had just murdered three people and who subsequently hanged himself in jail. Successfully.

    Bringing attention to the problem of cops over reacting in general is ok by me but acting as if there is a national epidemic of it and inviting that scum sucking pig Sharpton to the WH, etc., is over the top and justifies the fear among many conservatives that this president just doesn't get it.

    If Obama wants to curry favor with the trashiest elements in black American life, he needs to expect this sort of backlash.

    For the rest of us, we will always be able to fall back, in our ignorance, on our guns and our religions,
     
  5. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Hey! watch it
    BO called for " words that heal" and we all know he is always ready with words that heal

    [​IMG]

    I could quote many but maybe the biggest was when he accused the mostly white Cambridge Ma police force of acting stupidly.
    Nothing he as said since then suggested he was trying to heal.
     
  6. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    NJ
    " Like it or not, a very substantial portion of the minority community feels that the police are working against them, not for them."

    And who keeps reinforcing that story?
    Read the names in the OP
    add Sharpton Jackson and the leftist media.
     
  7. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    I don't think that you had to be a genius to see a spate of cop killings coming. Given that minorities don't trust the police to begin with, it doesn't help that black elected leaders are throwing gasoline on the fire by telling them; "yeah, you're right the cops are out to get you".

    Mayor de Blasio didn't help by going on abc and telling the press about the advice that he gave his own son for dealing with the police.

    The Link
     
  8. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    They no more responsible than the NRA is culpable for Newtown, CT.
     
  9. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts


     
  10. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    Looks to me like Mayor Rudy Guiliani, under whose administration New York City Policy started a stop and frisk program of dubious Constitutionality that pretty much resulted in millions of humiliating cop interactions for young black and Latino males is blaming their anger on some mildly worded speeches asking the police be held accountable for their dealings. (If you guys know of firy rhetoric that maybe inspired cop killers please link. Must have been delivered with Hitleresque passion and I'm truly sorry I missed it.)

    Looks to me like Mayor Guliani has created a self-serving baloney and ******** sandwich. It must be gratifying to have those critical analysis lovers who buy the Fox worldview run to their message boards and Facebook to share their discovery that Liburals asking for police accountability are REALLY the source of all the anger.

    I'll swear, a road trip buddy who ate 7 White Castles for lunch an hour ago could convince you the bad smell emanating from the back seat is the fault of the Obama Administration. [​IMG]
     
  11. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts


     
  12. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    In reply to:
    ________________________________________________________________________________

    You can't make broad claims that the police are inherently racist as an institution, undermine them by voicing support for protesters who are actually calling for violence, making sure people believe that they cannot get a fair shake under the current system and that these incidents represent the majority (or a substantial minority) of outcomes, and then be surprised when your audience's takeaway is that cops are the enemy and that there's no solution other than to get rid of them.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________


    We must watch different channels. I've never seen a public official, much less the president, make broad claims that police are inherently racist or offer support for anyone except "peaceful protesters."

    Did you hear that come from direct quotes or is it simply analysis of what was said delivered by Fox News? Fox, if you haven't caught on yet, spend its days and nights fomenting the anger of old white men. If somebody stirred up young black and Latinos with similar virulence, you'd want them in jail.
     
  13. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 2,500+ Posts


     
  14. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts


     
  15. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts


     
  16. Lancehorn

    Lancehorn 250+ Posts

    I understand that much of NYC had a very severe crime problem prior to "stop and frisk". I'm not an expert on NYC but I also understand that program along with a few others implemented under the former mayor were instrumental in a drastic reduction in violent and non-violent crime in much of NYC including area's with heavy minority populations. I'm not motivated enough to provide links to "before and after" statistics, but I think the results are unanimously respected and accepted.

    I bet on many an occasion several people were hassled unnecessarily, especially early in the process. In communities where the majority of people were minorities (duplicitous sounding statement huh) I'm sure "minorities" felt singled out, but I'm sure that people of all races were "stopped and frisked" at some point for behaving suspiciously. In the end however, the result was fewer deaths of all citizens based upon the success of the programs in cleaning up the streets and weeding out the criminal element.

    The political divisions in this are apparent and unfortunately what should be more of a discussion of appropriate use of force vs. a use of excessive force argument has turned into a hyped up race based media ratings moneymaker to motivate voters of both sides. but Guliani has more credibility in how to fix the problems than the current mayor, the DOJ, President and any fly in and stir **** up activist has. Based on track record.
     
  17. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I agree stop and frisk makes it harder to carry concealed weapons, drugs, etc. and has a crime-reducing impact. Heck, I even imagine focusing on minorities, as statistics show is the case, probably makes the percentage of arrests, confiscations, etc. go up.
    Now if your on the way to a job, a job interview, your daughter's dance recital, a doctors appointment and this happened to you twice this week ... you gotta ask yourself how much unconstitutional police state hassle am I willing to put up with.

    I guess since they hardly ever stop and frisk middle age white guys, what's the problem?
     
  18. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    By the way, the story of how New York City got a handle on its crime problem with what they called "broken window" policing is a marvelous success story. When the police started arresting folks who jumped the subway turnstiles, fixing broken windows and painting over graffiti immediately, etc. the atmosphere of the city changed quickly for the better. Psychological studies indicate the under the right stimulus, almost all of us are capable of criminal behavior. Environment can make a vast difference in how likely we are to act on temptation or anger-causing situations. I haven't really summarized it here, but it really was/is a wonderful example of making a city happier, cleaner, safer and more law-abiding.
     
  19. Lancehorn

    Lancehorn 250+ Posts

    Crockett, I am a CHL approved citizen. I detest the extra scrutiny on all of us currently at airports as a small example and I am quite sure you would find me probably much more against any "police state" type oppression than most. I see your point you are trying to make in assuming I'm white and therefore have never experienced some of the inherent "inconveniences" of being a minority. And if I had I would feel differently about the measures discussed like stop & frisk. But that would be a bit presumptuous of you overall. Although white I am a vast minority in my community. My girls, also white, are among just the 6% of students in their high school that are white. I live with many inconveniences of being different, and on occasion am the target of some ignorant stereotypes and exclusions in my community. I also had the (retrospectively speaking) privilege of living overseas in Brazil in my youth where I was also a minority and faced some unique racial situations. I've learned that the best way for me to operate in life is be a "minority of one" and not let others who would judge my experience or mindset prior to learning about me upset me to the point I call them racist, or project that title to them prematurely as well. That is a loser's mentality and only creates further divide as we are seeing play out in some of these situations. I understand that because some people are raised to classify me based upon race alone comes with the territory of living in a country where there is money to be made by people who would make it by further dividing us by race. I can primarily only influence those who come in contact with me, and I represent only me, although some will walk away perhaps painting others who look like me based upon their dealings with me.

    I don't know your race. Don't care, and not meaning that in a negative way. I've read your posts. Disagree with many of your conclusions, but you have experiences that should make you a minority of one. I type all of that to simply make the point that every person needs to be responsible for their own actions. Therefore if fewer minorities were involved in reinforcing some of the negative stereotypes with their actions, like Brown, that would also be a major, and I would argue the biggest, step in rectifying the tensions being exploited right now among those who would divide us by race.

    And to keep this topical and on point, Guliani for example, and his plans, were targeted at criminal activity, not a specific race. The fact that a higher percentage of certain races were performing the activity were secondary or maybe not a consideration at all in solving the problem. the actions were the problem. WHY some races were more likely to be involved in the criminal activity, and how to ultimately fix that, is a ten page thread all its own with plenty of blame and praise for many in all walks of life.

    Nothing is gained in order to fix "racism" by committing to divide by race as BHO, Holder, Sharpton and others intend, as it only increases racial divides, highlights racial differences and propagates that very thing in which it claims to desire to extinguish. Therefore, I agree with Guliani in this particular situation and see the others as part of the problem on a national level. Not the solution. They have picked situations that actually weaken what could have otherwise been a valid position. And I think "stop and frisk" would be effective in other areas in which crime and murder has gotten out of control. Perhaps Chicago?

    Why, with all of the real examples of racism out there, would they pick the ones in which their "martyrs" behave criminally? Are they that stupid to think that people wouldn't see it for hypocrisy? I personally don't think so. At least BHO and Holder aren't that stupid, Sharpton however is just as racist as a KKK leader in my opinion however, and really just a pawn in all of this. Nothing could be gained by raising a stink about an obviously racist situation that everyone could objectively condemn, because that couldn't divide us. THESE situations are special and being pushed to the front of the media intentionally because of the uniqueness of the facts.

    From a personal standpoint I think the Garner situation was excessive use of force (from what information I have been allowed to know) and something there stinks. There should be some form of corrective action, but I do not believe it was racially motivated. The Brown situation is a false flag event and a subsequent witch hunt (from what information I have been allowed to know) and although unfortunate, was a criminal who behaved criminally and tried to kill an officer and got himself shot dead by a police officer doing his duty. I don't think this was racially motivated.

    And the two dead policemen in NYC are the victims of a nutjob feeling he had the green light to kill from his "racially motivated" leaders.
     
  20. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    I'm a middle aged white guy. Had nothing but positive experiences with law enforcement. I like, admire and appreciate the police and am polite and compliant when we Interact.

    I think facts support controversial grand jury decisions.

    I just think it absurd to blame anger at police on a few mildly worded statements by politicians. It's life experiences that are making people angry and hostile.

    If you think being a a minority or scary looking (aryan tattoos, piercings, etc.) doesn't impact the level of police anxiety and resultingpropensity for violence then we'll have to disagree.
     
  21. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I see Sharpton will ignore the mayor's call for no protests or rallies until after the 2 fallen policemen's funerals.
    But no no that is peaceful and doesn't stir anything up. [​IMG]
     
  22. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts


     
  23. majorwhiteapples

    majorwhiteapples 5,000+ Posts

    How many guys pulled over between 7am-8am in business clothes are anything more than speeders?

    How many guys pulled over between midnight and 3am with music blasting out of their cars are anything more than speeders?

    Profiling is part of life, it happens with the police in business in school, when you are trying to meet a mate, finding a pet it happens in every aspect of life, if you want to be your own person that is fine and what America is about but don't be surprised if you dress or act like a criminal if you get questioned or treated like one, that is a choice you can make.

    If your innocent, act respectful and your innocence will prove out, if your guilty, lie and get violent, bad things will happen.

    Obey the law, respect the law and be respectful of society and 99.99% of this country will not have any problems. It really is simple, especially these days or the last 20-30 years.

    Side note, I have been pulled over numerous times in my life, never went to jail when I was respectful and courteous, the two times that I was not in my life, they found a reason to throw me in jail, strange is it not.......
     
  24. Das Mook

    Das Mook 250+ Posts

    Is it OK to judge a man by the way he is dressed? Can we have predisposed notions and stereotypes about his behavior and possible actions? Think about what they might do and how we might react? Not trust them or their motives? Then act accordingly?





















    I am talking about people judging police officers, of course. You know, the people that are dedicated to enforcing our laws.

    We are told not to stereotype people (young black men dressed certain ways specifically), yet certain communities distrust police officers. What are those communities doing to reach out to the police?
     
  25. Bevo Incognito

    Bevo Incognito 5,000+ Posts

    Culpable? It's as if Obama was holding the gun and pulled the trigger! He's guilty of murder in my opinion.
     
  26. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
     

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