New Big 12 Expansion Rumor

We always seem to make sure their QB gets injured later in the season, although apparently they do that without our help. But I think they really got tired running up and down the field last year. And a couple of them looked like they had to sit down between possessions and drink Gatorade.

 

That article blaming Beebe is a ******* joke. This conference was destroyed by the arrogance and ignorance of little Chuckie NeinASS. The expansion was a done deal and Deloss let NeinASS into Las Colinas - KABOOM. We lost the two best candidates while the Catholics butt ****** NeinASS and laughed all the way to the ACC. This after Swofford spent 3-4 days with Big XII in Grapevine.

THERE ARE NO VIABLE SCHOOLS FOR EXPANSION! The Big XII either steals someone, which will not happen because no school trusts the Big XII administration after NeinASS' f**k up, or implodes. both with huge fan bases. Really, you have the applications for admission from two major athletic departments, and the guy in charge is off chasing rainbows.

 

Joe,

They may have 40,00+ students, but maybe 500 go to games, and probably no more than 1,000 have ever seen a football game. Not much football in India and China.

Throw in the 1,500 alums that go to games, and you'd get a better response from Lake Travis HS.

 

UH drew 30,000+ in their home opener; a far cry from power conference numbers, but certainly a lot more than a couple of thousand. With 47k students you'd have to think a fairly large number attended the game. And the opponent was Tennessee Tech. I don't know much about expansion, or what factors are looked at, but it seems like having a program from the Houston area makes a lot of sense. It is the largest city in the state, and 4th largest in the country. And their student body is 4 1/2 times the size of TCU and 3 times bigger than BU. Maybe some feel it would hurt our recruiting efforts in that area; like I said, I have no clue about expansion criteria, but I'd hope other programs recruiting concerns wouldn't be a part of the equation.

 

This is how far things have deteriorated:

1. BYU: 63,470
2. Memphis: 59,308
3. East Carolina: 50,000
4. UCF: 45,4401
5. Houston: 40,755
6. Cincinnati: 40,000
7. Colorado State: 34,400
8. Boise State: 33,500
9. Southern Methodist: 32,000​

I would have rather kept the old SWC together then add anyone from this group (BYU is okay, but not ideal), or gone Independent.

The conference should stay "as is" or hit eject for the PAC or BIG and leave the B12 to wither away, regardless of Bowl affiliation and TV tie-ins.



That said I agree with this 100%

"So, you can see BYU is by far the best candidate for admission. Now, if we could get Notre Dame and BYU, I’d say expand to 12 because the TV money and additional exposure would be there."

- Santafe​

 

As long as the LHN exists, there will be no going to the PAC or Big.They both have their own conference networks, they will never allow Texas in and keep LHN in it's current format. The power schools at both of those conferences would never go for that.

Does Texas want to stick it to ESPN and ditch LHN? ESPN likes having LHN for a minor leagues for developing talent both in front of and behind the cameras. SEC network does the same for them.
Erin Andrews leaves, no problem we just bring up Samantha Steele from LHN. They use other reporters like Kaylee Hartung too, when needed, from SEC Network.

I would think ESPN also makes at least some profit from the combination of LHN and the SEC Network.

 

The PAC-12 Network is weak with relatively low payouts since they do their own production and distribution rather than have contracted that out to Fox or ESPN. It is more like 6 regional networks carrying the load with the PAC-12 Proper Network showing the marquis events. Thus the LHN could survive so that is not an excuse.

In reality, there are no good candidates for the Big XII which is exactly what the administrators are saying. Cincy does nothing for the conference as the people with the money in Ohio and surrounding states are solid B1G. BYU has a host of problems and no TV sets.

The SEC is out due to low to no academics plus it is a sewer. As long as FSU is in the ACC see SEC.

That leaves Texas either riding out the Big XII or bolting to the PAC-12 which would be expensive.

 

Agreed - the only reason we would be adding a team is for a playoff, and I still think that's overblown. TCU or whoever wins this league won't be any less deserving because they didn't beat the second-best team twice - which is something that almost no other conference champion will have to do this year anyway.

 

Overseas,

Why not go after Houston Community College or Lone Star College, both of which have 100,000 or so students?

Seriously, here is a history lesson for you. DO you know why University of Third Ward got into the SWC? DKR realized and openly said that they cold become a problem in recruiting, and that they cheated their asses off. He worried about losing Steve Wooster to them. Almost lost Randy Lee, until I told Randy that if he wanted to be in Houston for his girlfriend, go to a real school. Coach Royal wanted some protection from the SWC, which was doing such a great job of with aTm, SMU, et al.

They bring nothing to the table but a leach taking a share of TV and bowl money. They have no following, no national appeal. As for being in Houston, there are far more Texas and A&M alums than Houston alums in the city. Houston is also oSu's largest alumni chapter, and the #2 chapter for OU & Arkansas.

Their budget is weak, they lose money, they are a commuter school and don't travel. What could they possibly offer? Their coach will either be awful and get fired or be passthru like Sumlin, and like Herman will be.

 

I am fairly certain the ship has sailed on Notre Dame, the only really attractive school to add to the Big 12. The ACC has them sewed up.
BYU wouldn't totally suck, but otherwise, why add any teams? The playoff game is such a money oriented exhibition game, and all it accomplishes is eliminating one team from playoff consideration. A good Big 12 team that plays a couple of decent out of conference games will make the four-team playoff most years. Baylor does not comprehend this concept, but most of the other schools do.
The Big 12 has an excellent TV package, with large monetary rewards to all ten teams. I don't think any of them are unhappy, and the cure for not making the playoffs is to schedule an OOC team stronger than a junior high JV squad. Are you listening Baylor and TCU? Play somebody and quit bitching.

 

Accurate,

You are correct about ND. Letting NeinASS get involved doomed that from the beginning, eventhough ND spent two weeks visiting Deloss, et al.

Absent of Arkansas & LSU, the best pair were delivered to him on a silver platter and Chuckie totally ignored them, pissing them off enough that only a complete restructure would get their attention. Would be a great get though.

 

BYU is the only good candidate out there right now in my opinion. If we cannot find another good candidate to go with BYU (looks like we will not at the moment), I say stick with 10. I am not worried about not making the playoff because honestly, Texas football is not anywhere near the playoff right now and likely will not be next year either. Whenever we do come back, we schedule teams like USC, Ohio State, LSU, etc and will be fine if we run the table.

 

SabreHorn,

Your disdain for UH has a clear visceral component that doesn't merit a response, but it does bear noting. Your gratuitous reference to the Third Ward adds nothing to the discussion other than, presumably, to suggest that a university located in a predominantly African-American community should presumptively be denied access to the venerable Big 12. Otherwise, it's unclear what that reference adds to the discussion.

As for your other points, you are simply ignorant. UH has, with the hiring of its current President (yes, she's Indian--oh my!), made a significant commitment to improving its academic and athletic stature. In fact, Carnegie Mellon has designated UH as a Tier 1 research institution--UT and A&M are the only other public schools in Texas to receive the designation. And surely you're not confusing the Big 12 with the Ivy League. WVU, Tech, KState, OSU, and Iowa St are good schools, and I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that they're among UH's peer group.

UH is not-so-quietly converting itself from a commuter school to a more traditional, residential community--increasing the beds on campus from approximately 3,000 to almost 10,000 in the last decade. The student turnout at UH's first game was impressive by any standard, and particularly so when you consider the opponent.

Also, as I'm sure you're aware, UH just built a 40,000-seat stadium. And, yes, UH's attendance has generally been deplorable. I attended UH between 1988-1992, during the Run n Shoot era. The teams were exciting; the crowds weren't. (I suspect that you might recall the 1990 game, when UT tore down its goal posts. I think that game meant something to UT.) But I would submit that the tide is turning on UH's attendance woes too, which is a notable accomplishment when you consider the draws are AAC teams. Let's not pretend that the Big 12 is the SEC or Big 10 when it comes to the turnstiles. Baylor and TCU couldn't draw flies until recently.

Finally, yes, retaining a good coach is difficult when you're on the outside looking in. If UH received a P5 share of revenue, then I suspect that problem might be alleviated. But maybe that's what you're really concerned about.

The bottom line is that there are several legitimate reasons why the Big 12 might not want UH. But none of those require you to denigrate a school that's working hard to improve its lot in the academic and athletic communities. I'm clearly biased, but I think there are several good reasons why UH is a good fit for the Big 12. I find it odd that Texas schools would advocate Cincy or UCF or Boise St or Memphis over UH. As you noted, half the Big 12 schools have their largest alumni bases in Houston; why not play a game there every other year?

 

Indeed the school has made improvements. Read into it what you want, as your perspective is clearly a supportive one. I refer to it as University of Third Ward because that is where it is, and because the hand sign is three fingers forming a "W" - clearly a reference to "Third Ward".

When Ken Lay was selected Chairman of your Board of Regents, he and I had multiple conversations about how to improve participation at Houston. I told him from an outsiders view, the only real support seemed to be from people who spent time on campus when they were students. At that time, there was a problem with parking, food, party space. My advice was for the school to purchase all the property bounded by Cullen, Webster, Calhoun & McGregor to create a "university village", which would give the Greek system a place for houses, parties, parking, living, and to eat. My thinking was to create a true school atmosphere t=rather than get in and get the heel out without getting mugged. I advised he look how W&L rebuilt their social arena by creating a funding source to build and maintain fraternity houses prior to admitting women.

Secondly, the school had an image of being a "black school" when less than 8% of the students were black. How could he get that image improved and remain PC?

Lastly, the athletic department had a deplorable academic achievement record. Forget graduation, think progress. I always use one of your best athletes as an example. When I asked him about graduation, his reply, "I've only been there four years and have 9 hours credit". The coaches in Third Ward were known for that. Enroll, play, drop course load, go to HCC next semester, then come back and repeat.

The school has made great progress, but no school in Texas has Tier 1 status but Rice, who usually comes in between 15 & 20. True Tier 1 status is being ranked in the Top 50. Texas has been there, Powers helped us slip back to 52. SMU is the only school in Texas which can brag of great progress and that was made with money from Texas Exes like Eddie Cox, Robert Dedman, the Fondrens. SMU has moved from Tier 3 to about 56, even passing A&M. At their rate, they may pass us within five years. I commend UH for its improvements in research, law, pharmacy, but it will never be a real Tier 1 unless the Ivys and Public Ivys go out of business. The academic improvement and urban renewal are to be greatly admired, but you have your list and I have mine, which is the true Tier system of US News & World Report.

You are correct that they would be a better fit than the other city schools (Loserville, Memphis, Cincy, the convicts), but why should the Big XII expand unless someone brings TVs, national appeal, and travels well?

For your record, unlike others, I have see no reason to bring the cult into the Big XII.

 

PDF, I completely agree with Sabre. U of H brings nothing to table as an entry for a media base. Same with SMU and frankly neither did TCU or Baylor. Yes, your school has achieved a lot in the academic world.

I do not see any school out there that would help the Big 12 grow in any media market or sports prestige. UCF and USF? Come on, that idea sucks too. They do not even have a basketball or baseball program and being relatively new schools, have no alumni base. The only reason Baylor is in the Big 12 is because Ann Richards was governor at the time it was formed. Kinda the same for Tech, I forgot who the high state official that was a TTU alumni.

To me the only thing that makes since now is to take Tech, OU and OSU and make the PAC 12 into the PAC 16. You could have a east division with the 4 BIG 12 schools I named, add Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah. The remaining current PAC 12 teams would make up the west division.

The Big 12 is dead. Bury it.

 

So much overreacting from a sample size of 1 year.

 

Yes. Also the PAC-12 purists' don't consider those 4 as "real" PAC schools anyway. The East would be referred to as the Outlaw Division and the West would be referred to as the Civilized Division.

 

Sabre, I am sure you remember the old SWC days and the ties to the Cotton Bowl. It was joked that the Cotton Bowl people said that all the other schools had their fan base come to Dallas, stay in hotels and eat in restaurants. When the U of H tiny fan base came to Cotton Bowl, the drove up the day of the game, ate at the 7 to 11 stores, and robbed it on the way out.

 

This was my thought the year that NU and Mizzou left the B12. Time to join a new conference was then. The only thing that UH and whoever add is the B12 would have a CCG.

There is still opportunity to jump, but the LHN issue may be a problem. Better get while the gettin' is available.

 

The SWC was way more fun as a fan than what we have now

 

That's definitely the truth. I'd be more than happy with that group again. Too bad certain people couldn't keep from cheating constantly and screwing it up for everyone.

 

Yep. The experts say the TV revenues ares not there and never will be. And, thus, the schools would never agree.
But, ignoring revenues for a moment and looking at it solely from the perspective of fan experience, the SWC ruled. The Big 12 drooled. (and continues to drool)(to be kind).

Believe it or not, the SWC basketball tourney was even fun. My fav was when it was in the SA Hemisphere Arena.

 

65,

I remember that joke, but the second joke was that there were more 7-11s in Dallas than there were Houston fans attending the Cotton Bowl.

 

I went to that game, UH against Boston College. The Houston fans in the upper deck across from where I was sitting, put up a sign that said "We Ate A Hot-to-Go at the 7-11 On the Way Up" or something like that. It was cold, really cold, but not as bad as the '79 Cotton UH vs ND. That was miserable. NO I'm not a UH fan, but was a Cotton Bowl Association member for years and always got 4 tickets in pretty good seats.

 

In fairness to UH, they did get two of the absolute worst Cotton Bowl weather days ever.

 

Joe Fan has it right. From the fan's perspective, the Big 12 is a weak sister to the SWC. Although those days are long past and irretrievable, UH indisputably brings more fan interest than the current alternatives for Big 12 expansion. And because no other school (except BYU) brings much more to the table, UH seems like one of the logical 2 choices for addition.

Obviously, UT can take its ball and go wherever it wants. But other than a move to the Pac12 what realistic options are there? Seems like none.

So if the decision is to expand the Big 12, something that's clearly anathema to many on this board, it's hard to make a serious case to add two teams ahead of UH. And it's easy and lazy to continually recycle outdated notions about UH. The reality though differs greatly from memories many on this board harbor from the '70s and '80s. Hopefully UH will get the chance to demonstrate that. We'll see.

 

Rice would make us an unstoppable baseball conference. Also it has better academics. Even a Rice Stadium in disrepair is better than U of H's not the Astrodome campus stadium. I think Rice is the clear Houston area choice.

Rice. Added bonus, we proved Saturday we can beat them in football.

Also, Rice Mob > Houston mob. The Rice Mob is a funny band. The Houston mob is an actual mob. ​

 

Add Rice and Cincy and be done with it. Both are good schools with acceptable athletic programs.

 

I agree that adding Rice and Cincy seems like the most logical thing to do, considering we'll never get ND, BYU, or Boise.

At the same time, I think it'll probably just get to the point where we'll need to forge our own path if LHN is going to be around forever. OU will grab OK State and bolt for whichever of the remaining Power-5 conferences wants 2 more (probably the Pac). At that point, the Big 12 (down to 8) will get desperate and attempt to nab anything that moves. We don't want to be in that conference. It'll end up with like USF, Cincy, Memphis, and UH and call itself "the rebirth of the Big 12" or some crap like that. It'll be Conference USA all over again.

For years, I've heard the same shtick about Notre Dame being ineffective without a conference to call home, but it has never hurt them. They just keep scheduling decent teams every year and get more props than they should. We probably wouldn't be able to command an NBC-style deal like they did, but I bet we could get something.