General Presidential Campaign: Trump vs Hillary

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by mchammer, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Emperor Palpitine
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Yeah, she and Ernst Blofeld have a liking for Nehru jackets.
     
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  3. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I think Trump will start focusing on Hillary ' s lies and her danger to our national security.

    Perhaps things changed today.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 31, 2016
  5. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    My guess is an immediate pivot to the economy
     
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  6. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    per Ipsos Polling --

    Trump leads in --
    New Hampshire (by 14%)
    Missouri (by 6%)
    Wisconsin/Georgia/Arizona (by 3%)
    Michigan/Maine (by 1%)

    from @NateSilver538
     
  7. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Seems weird but Donald Trump has now held more press conferences in Mexico this year than Hillary Clinton has held in the US
     
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  8. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    SH, the President of Mexico has no choice. They will pay for the wall one way or other. They get a very lopsided trade agreement that they depend on. They have far more to lose than we do if we threaten to stop trade. Yes it would hurt us some, but it would flat out kill Mexico. Mexico may not write a check for a wall, but they would be forced to negotiate a new trade agreement and the savings we get from that will easily pay for a wall. Trump is a master at trade and a new trade agreement would save face for Mexico without looking like they paid for it while Trump declares success of the money saved from the new deal to pay for the wall. If Mexico refuses the paying for a wall would be minor to what it would do to there economy if we stopped free trade.
     
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  9. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I have never thought his "pay for the wall" line was a challenge to figure out. It's amazing how he stumps so much of the talking heads with that.

    The same idea came to me many years ago when I was trying to figure out how Western Union was surviving in the age of the internet. Why were there so many Western Union offices still open all over the place? That technology seemed so 20th Century (if not 19th).

    Once you figure it out, it becomes obvious. Adding a small fee to remittances would add up quick. And it could be so small as to be almost unnoticeable to the users. Say .05 cents or .08 cents per transaction - possibly a little less or a little more.

    There are other methods as well --
    1) Fees on Visas
    2) Trade Tariffs
    3) Reduced welfare payments (for example, one of the biggest areas of saving would be public hospitals - country hospitals for most places. The amounts of funds flowing through these places are 'off the charts')
     
  10. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    I caught the last part of an interview on talk radio this morning talking about who pays for the wall. I did not get the name, but basically Mexico will pay for the wall through changes in NAFTA. Also, the point was made that how they would pay was not discussed. Basically, Nieto Pena does not have a choice even if he says they will not pay for it.
     
  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    How do we know this? What trade agreements has he negotiated?
     
  12. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I guess it all depends on what you mean by "Mexico." Most people probably assume it means the Mexican government. However, a tax on wire transfers taxes individuals in the United States sending money to individuals and businesses in Mexico. That's not necessarily nefarious. I buy fancy-*** cheese, gummy bears, and booze from German and Dutch companies and other items from German eBay all the time and use a PayPal account, which charges me in US Dollars and pays the vendors in whatever currency I want. If I was doing that with Mexican companies, why should I get singled out to pay for a wall? It's true that a PayPal payment isn't the same as a wire transfer, but if you don't tax PayPal payments, then it seems like the tax would be very easy to evade.

    A fee on visas taxes people who are coming to the United States legally. Shouldn't they be the last people who get singled out to pay for the wall? You'd create an incentive to come illegally.

    Trade tariffs tax American consumers who are buying Mexican-made goods. That's definitely not an example of Mexico paying for the wall.

    Reduced welfare benefits by cutting payments to public hospitals? That isn't making Mexico pay for the wall. That's making public hospitals pay for the wall.
     
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  13. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    FIFY.
     
  14. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts


    That assumption is incorrect, IMO.

    Trump has avoided stating the means with any specificity. As he should at this point. But he has multiple tools at his disposal. Some might or would require Congressional cooperation, some would not.

    Also worthy of consideration is the way Trump is able to manipulate the media with all the "Wall, no Wall" combined with the "Who Pays" issue. I think they know what he is doing, but they keep sliding into same pattern.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  15. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  16. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    The key word is "negotiate." He went from $30 million to $5 billion because he can negotiate. Negotiating with Mexico will be a light snack for Trump since the US has all the leverage over Mexico.
     
  17. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Really? You don't think everyone in those rallies doesn't believe that Mexico will be paying for the wall? Sounds like you are assisting a future flip-flop for Trump.
     
  18. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    LOL! Like most of Trumps policies, that statement is pretty thin.
     
  19. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Agreed, most of those ideas are truly making people in America pay for the wall. Then again, Trump won't actually put any specific policy on how he intends to do this so all we have is guessing.
     
  20. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Pena Nieto certainly thinks it means Mexican government based on his statements.
     
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  21. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Oh look, like the 'ol Reading Comprehension Monster has reappeared.

    But maybe it's not your fault? The US media also seems to envision the Mex. Govt directly sending cash to the US Govt (i.e., pallets of cash on a plane thru Switzerland ala Obama). There are other ways for Mexico to pay for it than that.
     
  22. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Not relevant
     
  23. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Or it could simply be you have to twist and turn to try to add context to vapid applause lines? It's OK, I'm sure you'll find another meme based on misinformation. Maybe try FreakingNews to find another Photoshop competition winner like the HRC-OBL above?

    The other ways you mention above have much greater impact on the US than Mexico. Keep efforting to find some way to alter the context to what Trump is saying. Did anyone notice that Trump's "deportation force" has transitioned from moving 11 million people to thousands? Yep, he flipped.
     
  24. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    Because of Saturday Night Live's skit the first weekend after Trump made the statement. The President of Mexico walked into the Oval Office with a check and handed it to Trump. The liberal media has maintained that vision from the beginning and the lapdogs bought it.
     
  25. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Yet your preferred candidate hasn't put any policy details out to counter that. Why is that if he's being misrepresented? Could it be that the applause line works in rallies because they actually believe it? Taxing Western Union doesn't quite sound like "Mexico will pay for the wall" does it?
     
  26. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Hey, at least you are consistent. Personal attack on the source, ignore the merits. You are definitely a creature of habit.

    I think where you are stumbling on this issue is with the idea that, in order to make Mexico pay for the Wall, they must do so voluntarily. That the Mexican Govt must somehow cooperate with us in this effort. This is not the case.

    But, as noted above, you are not the only one confused. It is also rampant in the media as well. Which reveals some of the genius of Trump on this and similar issues. All this focus and chatter about the Wall plays into his hands. This election is within sight for him if he could manage to stop undoing the good he did one day by tripping over himself the next day.
     
  27. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    As he shouldn't and won't. Look at what happens when he just leaves it hanging out there?

    This is nothing new. It is "Presidential Campaigning In The US 101"
     
  28. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Please point me to a single policy that Trump has put out that supports your stance. You'll need to simplify it for those of us that are reading comprehension challenged. I'd take that personal but you apparently don't make those arguments.

    Maybe another meme? That may be the only appropriate way for Trump messages to be conveyed. Clearly detailed discussions aren't available because we are left debating the context of applause lines with this candidate.
     
  29. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    That's acceptable to you? It used to be that the voter pushed the candidate for specifics. Partisanship has turned us to enabling our preferred candidate.
     
  30. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Is this the best fake/real news ever?

     

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