Debate Thread

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by texas_ex2000, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Boy, that Bill and Melania handshake wasn't weird.

    Odds of Hillary going into an epileptic seizure?
     
  2. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    She will have at least a coughing fit. Or she may not be on her feet by the end of the debate. So in between somewhere in the middle.
     
  3. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Wow...strong opening by Donald and agreeing with Hillary in principle on child care.

    Good start for him.
     
  4. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    It was hard for me to judge. Like a closely contested boxing match when I'm pulling for one guy hard.

    When it's live I feel like my guy is losing with every landed punch. Then when the result has been decided, the replay shows I was just nervously over critical.

    I can't say if either side made a move up or down after tonight. Maybe if anything HRC stopped the bleeding and polls will stiffen as is until something new happens.
     
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  5. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

     
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  6. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    Hillary Clinton went a long way to diffuse the about-to-collapse-physically momentum. She did pretty well overall. Her high points were scripted gotchas but they were probably effective.

    Donald Trump was pretty good, too. The main thing that makes me think he won is that it felt quite a lot like the Republican debates where I was not sure at the time whether people would respond favorably, but then they did--every time. Especially with him trying to come from behind, it was generally what he needed.

    Hard to believe these are the finalists!
     
  7. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    I think Trump started really well, which is good for him since most people are tuning out after 30 mins. Very confident and good communicator on his economics positions. After that he lost his discipline and devolved into his polarizing self.

    He left a lot of opportunities on the table, e.g. going hard on e-mail (he did pretty well on that but not enough), Benghazi, Clinton Foundation. And while he certainly knows his attack on issues such as ISIS and his relations with African Americans (his work in Palm Beach), he fumbled his answers. He also didn't have an elegant response to the inevitable taxes, racism, and sexism accusations...that's inexcusable. You should have those written on the palm of your hand.

    Hillary was Hillary. She's not a great debater. She's not Abraham Lincoln up there. She did well to dodge the e-mail issues. This debate isn't going to change anyone's opinion, and I don't think it had a material effect on the current dynamics of the Trump momentum shift.

    So...IMHO it's a push. This was Trump's first debate. He should do better on the 2nd.

    I honestly think as long as Trump doesn't implode before November his momentum will be enough to win a close election. That's all Hillary can hope for - for Trump to implode. He didn't. Even if all the debates go the same way, I don't think it would be enough to stop his momentum.

    He doesn't need to "beat" Hillary in these debates. If he doesn't implode and reveal another level of crazy...he could win a close race. If he shows some presidential presence and gets Hillary to defend her e-mail, I think his momentum picks up and wins. That should be his goal and he did that tonight for the first 20 mins. If he actually starts beating Hillary in the debates he'll rake in the swing states and it's over - that's day dreaming though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2016
  8. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Very accurate observation. Nail on head.

    God...did I hate Trump in those GOP debates. But he obviously appealed to people and I didn't realize it when I was watching.
     
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  9. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    I also think the format was something Trump wasn't used to.

    In the crowded rep debates it was usually 30 seconds to a minute per response. It was easier to directly refute the one or two accusations thrown his way.

    With 2 minutes HRC was able to slip in about 5 points per attempt.

    I noticed with each accusation he was mentally preparing a rebuttal and by the time the rest were over a minute or so later he abandoned any mention to the earlier ones.

    Which is why HRC and other prez debate candidates take notes as the other talks.

    It's just experience where a candidate knows they have to physically remind themselves if they want to get back to a topic mentioned early in the 2 minutes.

    Which also tells me Trump will only do better in the next two. And if that was the worst he's gonna do being his initial expperience, he'll be just fine.
     
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  10. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    Trump devoted time to responses that shouldn't have been made. The Rosie O'Donnell stuff, the "Miss Housekeeping" stuff, the support of the Iraq War stuff, the "Obama created ISIS" stuff, the Sidney Blumenthal stuff, the "it makes me smart" to pay zero federal taxes stuff... it's the exact stuff that undecideds hate about him and only brought every single fact checker to the forefront. As Sarah Palin would say, the "gotcha" journalists are going to have a field day.

    His response of Clinton's experience being "bad" experience went unsubstantiated. He could have done himself a ton of favors and talked about how she's going to open the borders, allow more terrorists in, triple the national debt, lie about it, pardon all the felons, take all the guns, etc. But he didn't. Missed every opportunity to do so, and so, he's not going to gain new voters tonight.

    Something that I think will come to fruition in the following weeks will be the Bernie people coming out of the woodwork for Hillary. He was even live-tweeting his debate thoughts, like about Trump's factories in Bangladesh paying $.30/hour.
     
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  11. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    I don't like it when my candidate has to be on the defense for the most part. Hillary did well throwing darts at him. It also didn't help that Holt was throwing gotcha questions at him where he didn't toward Hillary. He also tried to play fact check on Trump and not once toward Hillary. Our very own Joe Fan exposed Hillary with the birthier using blumanthal issues and she just lied through her teeth and if Holt was a good fact checker he would have exposed her in front of everyone.

    But I did think Trump could have pounced her on so many things that he didn't. Example when the question came up how would you stop the lone wolf attacks on our land? He could have thrown a huge punch by starting with "the one thing you don't do is allow an over populated group of refugees that can't be vetted into our country like Hillary wants to do." Then follow up with what he would do. I just felt like he left a lot of opportunities to give Hillary a smack down. I felt like the whole debate could have been about her emails outside of the economy part.
     
  12. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Yahoo and Fox are calling it a "fiery debate". Conservatives think Trump won. Libs think Hillary won. Can't imagine it moved the polls much either way.

    I think Hillary was better prepared and more familiar with the format. Trump needs to prep more (or at least a little) for the second debate. That's not his style, but he's going up against a career politician with much more experience in this situation. He needs to watch that first Romney-Obama debate when Romney kicked Obama's ***.

    I thought Trump's best line was "you've been doing this for 30 years". He needs to build on that. Hillary has had 30 years to make a difference and hasn't, except for her catastrophic turn as Sec. of State.
     
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  13. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    I watched it with a handful of other people and this what we kept saying. "Why didnt he bring up this or that?" The Clinton offer so much rich material to reference.

    The mod did not do him any favors either -- going into tax returns and birtherism, but ignoring emails, PAC money, foreign money, the Foundation and physical collapses
    He has alot of work to do before the next one.

    Here is a question -- One thing we learned in the past few days is that Obama lied about knowing about HRC's private server. Which offers an explanation for the FBI's non-bill of Hillary. In other words, they did not want to go there bc eventually you will run into Barrack, who directs DOJ. Should Trump take a shot at Obama over this? It's there if he wants it, and would be consistent with his theme that all politicians are corrupt - its time for something new, etc. But criticizing Obama carries a risk. Should Trump go for it, or let this one go?
     
  14. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Appears she was wired

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  16. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    I think Trump held back on Hillary ' s lies for one of the later debates.
    She threw everything at him . I was surprised she went after him on the birthed issue when her people started and kept it going for so long. Got to give her credit for chutzpah.
     
  17. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Chris "Obama sends a thrill up my leg" Matthews says; "Hillary hit it out of the park. It's over!"
     
  18. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    In a shocker, the AP fact-checked Clinton --

    AP FACT CHECK: Clinton misrepresents stance on Pacific trade
    Sep. 26, 2016 9:37 PM EDT
    WASHINGTON (AP) — A claim from the presidential debate and how it stacks up with the facts:
    HILLARY CLINTON, denying Donald Trump's accusation that she called the Trans-Pacific Partnership the "gold standard" of trade agreements: "I did say I hoped it would be a good deal."
    THE FACTS: Trump is correct. As secretary of state, Clinton called the deal that was taking shape the "gold standard" of trade agreements, in a 2012 trip to Australia, and championed the agreement in other venues around the world. She did not merely express the hope that it would turn out well.
    Clinton flip-flopped into opposing the trade deal in the Democratic primary when facing Bernie Sanders, who was strongly opposed to it.
    http://bigstory.ap.org/77e90ed95b2f4b699c2681c7e8f288c2


     
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  19. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    I agree that Trump had many opportunities to slam her and did not. That was the 1 thing I wanted out of him, to put her in her place. When she said his trade policies were intended to enrich his own family, that was a softball to nail her on the Clinton Foundation. All he said was, "My family gets how much?"

    Also I think it is not enough to say well I am going to cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 15% and just expect everyone knows that will keep jobs here. You have to explain, dude, some folks are kinda dense on this. Say that companies will keep jobs here if we lower their cost to be more competitive with other countries, then cite a few who have lower tax rates than ours. Tell em we gotta get competitive if we want to keep our jobs in America.
     
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  20. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Overall, HRC was by far the better debater but like most this debate didn't likely move anyone. If a voter entered 9/26 a Trump or HRC voter they exited the same. Trump started in an organized manner then devolved into a hot mess. Can anyone tell me what his 8yr old son's prowess with computers has to do with our national security?

    Did this impact the very narrow "undecided" voter? Doubtful. Trump did a good job sticking to his themes even while neglecting to detail any plans. Soundbites are what matters though thus a mastery of policy is no longer a knockout and is actually a bonus in some voters eyes.

    The questions were clearly slanted against Trump but as Megyn Kelly stated last night, that may be due to running out of time as Lester Holt allowed Trump/HRC to spar adeptly ensuring he wasn't IN the debate.

    Since funny tweets have become a past-time on West Mall I got a chuckle out of this one:


    Finally, an ominous quote from Winston Churchill: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
     
  21. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Yes but the time he did have he spent it attacking Trump.
     
  22. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Moderator bias was a big issue in 2012 too. Candy Crowley single handedly swung one debate to BO. The RNC knows that, but can't seem to do anything about it.

    The next debate will be moderated by Anderson Cooper of CNN, an openly gay man, and Martha Raddatz of ABC, whom I know nothing about.

    Chris Wallace will moderate the third debate. He might be relatively impartial.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  23. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    I'm not so sure. Look at the questions related to the topic areas.

    Here are the 2 questions directed to HRC on the email scandal.

     
  24. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    CNN should be disqualified from providing any moderators. Their bias to Clinton is open and blatant. No way Trump gets a fair shake there especially with the final debate hosted by Chris Wallace at Fox.
     
  25. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    I think Anderson Cooper is probably the most impartial personality out of all the major news networks. Unlike Wolf Blitzer and Amanpour and the other CNN anchors/reporters who editorialize ad nauseam, I just see Cooper just report the news and give straight forward commentary on the "round table" specials. It's so noticeable, especially right after a shooting or a terrorist attack, because his other CNN anchors just spout off the DNC talking points while he just reports. I have a lot of respect for him, and 360 is the only heavy news program on CNN I can watch regularly.

    I don't think his sexuality influences his integrity, and if it did, Trump is a candidate that's been very transparent about being a big tent candidate when it comes to the gay community.

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/ande...president-i-dont-think-reporters-should-vote/
     
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    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  26. UTChE96

    UTChE96 2,500+ Posts

    Wow, the Republican party is managed worse than the Big 12. Why do they consistently allow biased moderators in these debates. There are plenty of good choices yet they keep agreeing to the Crowley's and Holt's of the world.
     
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  27. GreenDragonSix

    GreenDragonSix 100+ Posts

    Well the chairman of the GOP, I think, has something to do with that....so I want to believe...

    Get used to it... Reince Priebus is a political puppet lightweight (dear god, I bet when he was a kid had trouble spelling his own name in grade school).

    The GOP is in disarray. There's no real GOP leader. McConnell and Ryan are just a bunch of open leg whores. Ryan is only trying to survive in this dying GOP "Good Ole Boy" club.

    Before Ryan, Boehner was the worst the GOP political leadership ever had. That guy was utterly useless. Ryan will never get beyond Speaker of the House. Never. He's done.

    Now the thing to think is who is actually driving the GOP since the Bush donors have been pushed out of play by the Donald.
     
  28. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Hofstra pre-debate sign, equipping the youth of tomorrow for life outside the womb

    [​IMG]
     
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  29. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    ^^^

    That sign was probably necessary because Bill Clinton was in attendance.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  30. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

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