Barring injuries, we will win out...

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by moondog_LFZ, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    Not what he does...What he doesn't do....We should have gotten a QB if SB was all we had to run this show.
     
  2. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    You put it in because that is why you were hired. That is Gilbert's area of expertise.
    And if Shane is the only one who can run it, its because the QB cupboard essentially has been bare for 4 years. And Shane and Gilbert are in their first year, so why would anyone expect us to have a stable of spread option QB's?

    Charlie only bought the hunh spread option Gilbert style when Gilbert was hired less than a year ago.

    This^^^
     
  3. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Yeah, I saw that Walmart had a big clearance sale on 5 star QB's just last week. :facepalm:
     
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  4. dukesteer

    dukesteer 5,000+ Posts

    That about sums it up for me....
     
  5. Txreds

    Txreds 250+ Posts

    Does anyone really believe Charlie has what it takes to run this program and do it well? The evidence and bad judgement all point to no. Even if we win 8 games is that really good enough? We ran Mack out for that, but yet accept it for Charlie. I don't get it. I said a long time ago we might regret the way Mack was handled and I think it rings true now.
     
  6. OldHippie

    OldHippie 2,500+ Posts

    Yes. I believe it. I could be wrong but I won't know for sure until after he completes his contract in another 2.75 years. Once he gets his players into the program, I think he will produce like he did at Louisville with double digit wins (11-2 and 12-1).
     
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  7. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    "That," ^^^ as the bard once said, "is the question." But the rub is that whether the offense scores enough is interdependent on whether the defense has enough stops.
    So the intertwine of the two sides of the ball is everything.

    The defense HAS to improve or we are totally, 100% DOOMED.

    If our offense continues its current pace then we will be ok, if the D improves.
     
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  8. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 5,000+ Posts

    Anybody who doesn't see the difference in a 15 year coach winning 5-8 games and a brand new coach winning 5-8 games is just being silly.
     
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  9. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    I still believe in Charlie Strong. He has made some organizational mistakes for sure, that set his own timetable back. He has also had some game day boners that are frustrating.

    But he has also proven he can get the team ready for big games (OU, Baylor) and also proven he can recruit like a mofo, in spite of a lot of negative momentum (some self-inflicted and some not). I think* that the flashes this team has shown are what the team can be, and not anomalies.

    I will be the first to admit I could be wrong. I hope I am right and that the worm turns sooner than later, for our sake (and Charlie's).

    I also think he is a hard working man who is learning from and correcting his mistakes.

    Mack, on the other hand, got fired because he got lazy, and convinced himself that winning was easy. Recruiting and winning was as simple as naming a Head Coach in Waiting, and reloading with guys like Case McCoy, and when it became clear that was't the case, he was not showing signs that he had the fire in his belly to turn it around.

    Its forgivable for a a guy who coached 16 years and had a lot of success. But he should have retired before he checked out. Strong is anything but checked out, and I think his best coaching days are still ahead of him.
     
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  10. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan SEC here we come!!

    This was my chief fear last week. A shootout with Cal and they had the ball last and we couldn't stop 'em.

    Of course the Horns squandered 2 opportunities in the red zone that could have changed the game, but what the hell, Horns scored 43 points! It should have been enough. The D couldn't get enough stops and or turnovers to win the damn game.

    In 3 games, how many pass attempts against the Horns?
    Has to be well over 100.
    The Horns defense has ZERO, ZERO interceptions people!!!
     
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  11. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    You mean 5-9 games for Mack and 5-6 wins for Charlie? Because Charlie has yet to win more than 6 games. I totally 100% agree that charlie should keep his job if we win 8 this year. However three years of 8-9 wins by anyone is much better than three years of 5-6 wins by anyone.

    What is funny is Bear Bryant had this stretch between national titles:
    1967: 8-2-1
    1968: 8-3
    1969: 6-5
    1970: 6-5-1

    DKR has this stretch between national titles:
    1965: 6-4
    1966: 7-4
    1967: 6-4

    So you are saying you believe if a national title winning coach (who has proven he can do it) has a "bad" stretch, you believe he is spent and less likely to win another title than a young, unproven coach who has 3 years of winning nothing and 0 prior experience at a major school. That is not logical.

    I think it is silly to think an experienced coach that has won a national title going 5-7, 8-5, 9-4, 8-5 and improving his conference record every year is somehow less likely to win than an unproven guy floundering at 5-6 wins.

    Charlie went 11-2 in year 3 at Louisville. He went 12-1 in year 4. Hell, he went 7-6 years 1 and 2. He has never been the head coach anywhere for 5 seasons and he already has his players now. He was producing at lousiville more every year than he has here so far. His time at Lousiville does not indicate he needs 5 years to turn it around. If he is really turning it around here, he should be able to get to 8 wins this year, against the weakest schedule he will ever see, in year 3 as he went 11-2 in year 3 at Lousiville.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  12. Texas Lawhorn

    Texas Lawhorn 100+ Posts

    I'll tell you this, these next two games are probably make or break it for Strong. Lose these next two and I wouldn't be surprised if the administration says "we have seen all we need to see." Sitting 2 and 3 with Herman possibly up for grabs.
     
  13. Txreds

    Txreds 250+ Posts


    I would not say it is silly to expect a guy to win more than 6 games when he is being paid $5 million a year. Mack won 8 his last year and I would bet anyone he would have at least won that many if he had come back.

    People on here are awful critical of a guy that took us to two national title games and kept us in the hunt year after year. At least he didn't show the game day blunders that we have seen from Strong.
     
  14. Txreds

    Txreds 250+ Posts

    So far Charlie's only signature win was last year against OU. The Baylor game at the end of the year was a joke. They had a WR playing QB. The ND win was just a win over a mediocre team with very few returning starters.

    So far I have little faith in his game day execution. He kills it in recruiting but then nada.
     
  15. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Old coach versus a new coach winning 5-8 games.

    Lets review:
    Old coach only won 5 games one year. The other 15 years were 8 wins or more, never had a 6 win or 7 win year.
    New coach has never had a 7 win or 8 win season. The two years were 5 wins and 6 wins.

    Where does a 5-8 win a year coaching comparison come from?
     
  16. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    If he doesn't get to winning and fast, he will be nada in recruiting too. This year is critical for Strong, and I sure hope he understands that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 5,000+ Posts

    There were a few OU blowouts that I would beg to differ on this.
    I loved and supported Mack.
    And I have posted before that it wasn't until the last OU blowout that the words "Mack has to go" came out of my mouth.
    He was gone the following season.
    Mack did great things.
    But there were games were it looked like his team didn't even practice the week before the game.
    He had some terribly coached games.
    But I will always love and support him for what he accomplished.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Charlie's chief weakness seems to be his choice of assistant coaches. His initial OC was awful. Sadly, I'm afraid Bedford will wind up being an abject failure as well. His defenses here have been historically bad.

    Strong is a good judge of talent. He is a fine recruiter. His players are motivated, giving it their all.

    But It took him three years to find a decent OC, and so far his DC choice has been unable to field a defense capable of playing winning football on a consistent basis.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    I agree, I have always said his biggest weakness is not CEOing good enough.
    People used to knock Mack for being a CEO coach, but it was a very valuable strength that he had. He had a clear vision for the program, communicated it well, and (with the exception possibly* of Greg Davis) he had the right people in place underneath him.

    *Even Greg Davis for all his faults knew what Mack wanted and when the stars aligned it all came together for them
     
  20. Txreds

    Txreds 250+ Posts

    Greg Davis got a lot of crap but be should have gotten some credit for what he did do. He changed his entire offense to suit the talents of Vince Young then changed it again to suit Colt and his style. He ran some of the most prolific offenses we ever had at UT. It was a shame he did not get credit for adjusting his scheme to his players.
     
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  21. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    Our defense has to improve somewhere around 100% for us to win out. Charlie is now helping with the defense. But before the season even started I said on here somewhere that Charlie just needs to put the offense in SG's hands and he put all of his effort into the defense. Because last year I seen way too many 3rd down and long situations that they didn't stop. It really hasn't changed that much in the first 3 games this year.
     
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  22. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    The mark of a great coach : He can beat you with his and he can beat you with yours....Darrell Royal said something like that back in the day. This isn't Louisville in a non power 5 conference. You can't get away with poor coaching hires, and Charlie made some very poor ones, and looks like he refuses to get rid of the worst hire of all in Bedford.
     
  23. GeoSteppen

    GeoSteppen 25+ Posts

    There are 3 primary coaching responsibilities that define a defensive effort. Talent, Scheme, and Execution.

    I think the Talent is good enough at this point.

    I think that the Schemes are fine as well since the D was good when Charlie was playing with Mack's guys. Although I bet we try to play more zone than we did before.

    That means Execution is where Vance and ultimately Charlie are screwing up. The nice part is this is something that can be immensely improved given two weeks with an axe to grind.

    If SO. Horns soundly defeat OSU in convincing fashion. (assuming offense does what it's been doing)

    If NOT. Then there is something systemically wrong with the way Vance is teaching Defense to the players. Something that wasn't a problem in 2014?
     
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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  24. LikeMike

    LikeMike 500+ Posts

    Moondog:

    I'll bet you meant to write "with our terrible defense, special teams and weak armed QB we may win 3 or 4 games this year, if we don't have too many injuries"

    Is that close?
     
  25. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    LikeMike, I think you meant to write, "With our terrible defense, and special teams its amazing we have won any games this year. Thank goodness we have an improved offense, a true freshman quarterback and center who will only get better. Which means that one side of the ball is in good hands, and well coached. Gosh, I sure hope that Vance Bedford is gone soon, and that our special teams coach is already gone by the time I finish typing this."
     
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  26. LikeMike

    LikeMike 500+ Posts

    No question the defense and special teams are the top problems. But, when is our offense going to begin throwing the ball past the first down marker. Our QB seems like a good, smart guy. He would have benefitted from a red shirt shirt. Our last two opponents had guys throw 20 yard bullets over the middle to receivers moving toward the end zone. Based on the last two games, it appears that the only way our guy can get it that far is to put a lot of air under the ball (interception waiting to happen).
     
  27. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    LikeMike....Bama's TRUE Freshman is doing well, as are others. Its all about scheme and play calling. .......Especially game planning and adjustments and using trick-r-ation to compensate for weaknesses. We don't do that, (and using youth excuse is BS. )....what you lack in experience you make up for with trick-r-ation and misdirection......BUT WE DON'T DO THAT..We stay vanilla and get shut down as the game goes on and defenses adjust to what we are doing. Is Charlie handcuffing Sterlin, or is Sterlin just not very good ???? Who knows...
     
  28. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 5,000+ Posts

    After I read "weak armed QB" I realized your post was not to be taken seriously.
    Shane has been called one of the most underrated QBs by the NFL no less.
    He is already on their radar.
    It's not his arm.
    It's the play calling.
     
  29. LikeMike

    LikeMike 500+ Posts

    I want our QB to succeed. Have yet to see him throw a 20 yard pass
    on a rope. What NFL guy has said he has future there? No doubt we could win a lot of games with his leadership if we played some defense. But, at present, I've seen two QBs with better arm strength (the last two we played).
     
  30. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    No, Its not. Bama has won multiple championships because of great players, great recruiting for at least 10 years, and great coaching. Bama's scheme is run to perfection mostly because of a three deep roster made up of four and five star players coached by the best coach in the country. I suspect a lot of schemes could be run very successfully with those players and with Saban in charge.

    By the way, Shane is doing very well too. Sadly, our defense is not.

    There was a B12 coach that beat Saban in a major bowl just a few years ago. We play that coach this Saturday. Somehow, Charlie's team managed to beat Bob last year. Go figure.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016

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