This new offense...I still don't get it.

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by SAMMCHornfan, Sep 28, 2016.

  1. SAMMCHornfan

    SAMMCHornfan 250+ Posts

    Can someone please explain why the Horns have tried to run this type of offense for the last 3 or 4 years when their defense has sucked so badly? Why aren't they trying to use as much of the play clock each and every down when they have the ball instead of trying to score in 30 seconds flat. What difference does it make if you score quickly, but your defense is dead tired form just being on the field from trying to defend a 15 play drive by the other team? I was just holding my breath in my Cali game that the Horns could keep answering, but.... Don't get me wrong, I love the explosive plays, but can't those plays be just as explosive after using up some time on the clock and give the D a breather? It is supposed to be a more exciting brand of football. Hmmm. I was pretty excited when I watched Vince and Colt running the team. Offenses seemed to score pretty many points then too. They didn't seem to be in too much of a hurry. Color me frustrated!
     
  2. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    We haven't.
     
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  3. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 5,000+ Posts

    I refer you to Mack Brown's offense after the loss to Alabama.
     
  4. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Actually, we ran a "running play clock" offense in 2014 under Shawn Watson.



    ^ Here is a pro style, clock running offense in all its glory. Enjoy!

    What we are running now is closer to what we ran under vince and colt than anytime between 2011-2015.
     
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  5. SAMMCHornfan

    SAMMCHornfan 250+ Posts

    The Horns always huddled up under Vince and Colt...for the most part. Not a continuous hurry up.
     
  6. Badass

    Badass 2,500+ Posts

    Not a bad question SAMMC. I am not an Xs and Os guy but i often wonder if the hurry up spread offense makes it impossible to have a good defense because the defense tires out.
    Most Big XII defenses suck and they all seem to run the hurry up spread offenses.

    Remember good ol Buddy Ryan punching Kevin Gilbride in the face for not using up more clock on offense ... Buddy called that offense the chuck and duck.
     
  7. OldHippie

    OldHippie 2,500+ Posts

    I think the main goals of the hurry-up-no-huddle (HUNH) offense is to prevent situation substitutions on defense for various down-and-distance scenarios, and to tire out the defense, particularly the larger defenders. I think it requires more energy to play defensive line than it does to play offensive line, so the defensive linemen tire out more quickly than the offensive linemen.

    I think you are correct in seeing the stress a HUNH team places on its own defense and that is why scores on both sides of the ball often rise, causing "shoot-outs". In the end, perhaps teams are using the HUNH because it is more exciting and sells more tickets and attracts more talented high school recruits. And, if you don't have elite athletes on defense, it gives a less talented team a chance to win a more free-for-all shoot-out.

    It also allows fans who are bored with years of complaining about offensive coordinators to switch to complaining about defensive coordinators.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  8. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Could be because our offense statistically sucked and now does not and currently our defense statistically sucks, but who knows what those fans base their complaints on?
     
  9. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    I do see your point and I have always wondered why it is that HUNH teams are usually paired with a really bad defense. You can barely find any examples of HUNH teams paired with a good defense. I can't think of one paired with a great defense.

    It not just Time of Possession though. I have a theory that its because the pace of the practice does not allow for coaching moments to the defense, within practice.
    Sure, repetitions are great, but if you're on defense and you're used to getting scored on a lot in practice, you're going to get scored on in games. There is only so much learning you can do from your mistakes in the film room. Getting scored on is in your muscle memory.

    Its like you have to commit to outscoring everyone on your schedule, because it seems impossible to have HUNH with a great defense.
     
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  10. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    You can slow the game down when substantially ahead (21-28points) by running clock between the plays. HUHN hopefully comes with a defense that can make at least 4-5 stops or limit the other team to more FGs than TDs.
    See what Baylor did to Rice in running out the clock and losing my money by not covering the spread.
     
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  11. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    No and in fact they were quite effective using no-huddle. There were a number of times Mack went to a quicker tempo to spark the offense.

    Hurrying keeps the other team from substituting (mostly) and forces them to keep their defense relatively static, theoretically making the reads easier for the offense.
     
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  12. SAMMCHornfan

    SAMMCHornfan 250+ Posts

    Sure, everyone does the no huddle once in a while, but not from beginning to end.
     
  13. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    That's a dodge.

    The only times they broke out of it was when they were so far ahead that they were playing second stringers. When VY (2005) and Colt (2008-2009) were on the field, they put the pedal to the metal. And even that's not the point: they could have easily kept running it no-huddle with the second teamers in the game and it would have had absolutely no effect on the outcome whatsoever. In fact the only thing opting out of it in 2005 accomplished was that it ultimately prevented them from setting literally every NCAA scoring record in the books. VY probably played in 4-5 4th quarters that year and I could probably count the number of scoring drives led by Nordgren on one hand.
     
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  14. Crockett

    Crockett 5,000+ Posts

    The hurry-up offense puts a lot of pressure on defenses... both defenses. The Philadelphia Eagles had, statistically, an abysmal defense last year. Pretty much the same personnel, on the field about 20 fewer plays per game, are kicking butt, about the best, by statistics, in the NFL.
     
  15. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Then sounds like the defense should have stopped the other team sooner.
     
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  16. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    Which leads to another point:

    This whole "it makes your own defense tired" argument would have merit if the bulk of the yards and points allowed were coming in the second half. That's usually not what actually happens. Take the Cal game. They scored 35 by halftime. Halftime. You don't get to argue "tired defense" if 70% of the points you allow come before you go to the locker room. If it was the reverse and they were holding them to 14 or whatever until the wheels came off in the final quarter, ok I'll buy the "tired defense" card.

    The reality is that Texas' defense is Donald Trump-level bad. They're helping themselves with this hurry-up offense because by scoring quickly they're at least forcing the opposition to consistently score in response, which is difficult to do even against a bad defense at this level. If you go at them with the kind of offense they ran in 2015 (only no-huddle a handful of times and in an outdated and nonsensical system), you're a 4-8 ball club.

    If anyone wants to go back to that, just say so. But please spare the rest of us this pious "oh run the clock, won't someone think of the children" business.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  17. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Good points HP. My immediate thought was "didn't Cal march down the field and score to start the game?" They had 35 in the first half! The issue is, we have a horrendus defense.

    Compare our offense this year to the 2014 Texas bowl. Our offense is lightyears better. The problem is, our defense is lightyears behind our 2014 defense which produced 4 NFL draft picks. We either have not reloaded with adequate talent in 2 seasons, or the players are not well coached. Take your pick.
     
  18. car54

    car54 1,000+ Posts

    The defense only tires out if they continue to give up third down conversions and allows the opponent to drive down their throats over and over again. Kinda like Bedford's defense does.
     
  19. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 2,500+ Posts

    I think that's the whole issue SMMC is concerned about and I think it's definitely a major issue if your offense can't move the ball. The perfect example is when Watson tried to run the HUNH with Swoopes. Since we couldn't move the ball if was always a quick 3 & out and give the ball right back to the other team so they could wear out our defense. Fortunately back in 2014 we had a pretty good defense that could give the ball back to our offense. That's not the case anymore, but at least we have an offense that doesn't quickly give the ball back to the other team.

    The HUNH is fine if you can score and score a lot, but it both your offense sucks and your defense sucks I would think it's a recipe for disaster.
     
  20. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    There's no good recipe when the ingredients are ****** offense and ****** defense, and that's kinda the point: it's a team game. If you're at the point where you're blaming the offense/defense for the failures of the defense/offense, one of the units isn't doing their job.

    That was the whole point, to be perfectly honest, of my posting the Landry Grades starting 11 years ago: because some bu-*******-ffoons had the nerve to blame the 2004 loss to OU on the defense. And that game is a perfect analogy of the Cal game in diametric fashion: it doesn't matter that Adrian Peterson ran for a lot of yards. He didn't score any touchdowns. His team scored 12 points. When you give up 12 and you lose, that's on your offense that scored zero points and racked up a 1/11 on the Landry sheet (and the one positive they did get was that they were 4/10 on third down when the standard was 40%. In other words, they were a play away from being 0/11).

    Similarly when you put up 43 in regulation with 90 snaps totaling 568 yards and achieving 34 first downs (30 if you take away the penalties), and if you lose, that's on your defense.
     
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  21. GeoSteppen

    GeoSteppen 25+ Posts

    Defense sucked and that is the objective reason we lost to Cal. That being said, the offense had a chance to win it for us anyway. Running the ball would have helped run the clock sure, but more importantly, IMHO, it would have scored more consistently on a Cal defense that was incapable of stopping it. Especially if Buechele is off. Especially if it is because of an injury. Everyone knew it.
     
  22. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Especially against a team with a good offensive line, AP at running back, Jason White at QB, and three WRs that got drafted in the first 100 picks as well. Greg Robinson I think realistically knew he was not going to shut down every last bit of the OU offense, and went for trying to shut down Jason White & co. and see if the freshman could beat us without a passing game. Considering that we forced White into 3 turnovers and also held OU to their lowest point total of the season even while our offense was continually giving OU the ball right back as soon as we'd stop them, I'd say his idea worked about as well as it possibly could have.
     
  23. SAMMCHornfan

    SAMMCHornfan 250+ Posts

    Thanks for all your input. Some I agree with and some I don't. No problem, I never expect everyone to agree with my point. My main frustration actually started from the very beginning of this year. Man, we have all these running backs, where we could go big and small, but of course mainly big with Foreman and Warren. But, even those guys need to catch a breather between plays. Why hurry? Keep pounding that other defense.

    That last drive against Cal was what really bothered a lot of people. The Horns still had 4 minutes left and they were gaining 7 to 10 yard a shot running the ball. Why stop!!! Buchele didn't stand a chance on that last drive. And then punt? Oh well, what do I know? I don't get paid 5 mil a year to make those decisions.
     
  24. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    Pounding the middle and hurrying up are not mutually exclusive concepts
     
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