Can the Libertarian mentality improve the Republican Party?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by dang-str8, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. dang-str8

    dang-str8 1,000+ Posts

    The chaos in the Republican party seems to be bringing the need for major change at their Federal level... The Libertarian Party seems to be growing and getting stronger with younger voters... can the Republican Party make drastic changes in the social views and win over some of those voters? I think their social views are way outdated and those who support it are dying off... They can truly become a power house if they focus on their fiscal ideals and only push on their agenda the truly important social views...

    Paul Ryan would buy into that and they could be out with the old and in with the new before you know it...
     
  2. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Libertarians are pot smoking, pro-choice, isolationists.

    No thank you.
     
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  3. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    A hawkish defense platform and social values are what separates the Libertarians from the Republicans. I don't see any what the Republicans suddenly become doves or cast off the religious right. Will Trump take his ball (and supporters) and go home after this election? His movement and desire for celebrity is bigger than his recent 3rd party predecessors. If he starts up his own TV Network, the Republican party is going to have to do some soul searching. Do they embrace the alt-right or turn away and become a whipping boy of the alt-right?
     
  4. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    To fully incorporate libertarians, they'd have to totally reject religious conservatives and embrace an isolationist foreign policy. They'd lose a lot more in votes and campaign money than they'd gain. Having said that, I think they could attract some libertarian-minded voters by deemphasizing social issues (especially at the national level) and dramatically changing how they approach them when they do and supporting pot legalization.
     
  5. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Look, Libertarianism for me is less about the pot legalization and more about the fundamental notion that government is best achieved at the local/regional level and is more wasteful and less effective as its reach expands. There are obvious needs for a federal government, but the federal nanny state we have allowed to form is disturbing on so many levels I cannot elucidate them all in one post. I can sum up though.
    $20,000,000,000,000.00
    We the people have allowed our lovely federal government and its associated bureaucracy to put us that far in debt. Our congress hasn't done an actual budget in decades. It's all omnibus spending bills and emergency short term spending so the government doesn't "shut down". f**k them. Shut it down, burn it down, whatever. I am still waiting for a candidate from the R or D who will resurrect Reagan's idea that maybe Washington is the problem and not the solution.
     
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  6. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    I don't smoke pot. If you do, I happen to think you are making a dumb choice. But I think it's even dumber for the government to rush in and arrest for you for it.

    Mostly, but not all.

    I.e., about the only ones with enough sanity to say that the USA should not be involved in 4-5 wars at a time on a regular basis. Both Republicans and Democrats tend to have Libertarian mindsets towards foreign intervention - whenever the other side is president.
     
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  7. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    I think people would be surprised that most libertarians I am aware of do not partake in drugs. The issue for libertarians isn't the desire for drug use but for laws prohibiting them and the government interference in the lives of others because of it. The War on Drugs started mostly for racist reasons as a way for the government to legally harass parts of the society. I am as anti-drug as you get, but I am for city, state, and federal budgets not needing the millions of dollars to run the drug war.

    I also think that rationale people can have a conversation on how important security is and the right way to go about it without always beating the drum of "we need to rebuild the military!". That message does not logically fly when the good ole peace-loving USA spends more on military than the countries ranked 2-5 (or something like that).

    But really the biggest things that need to be done are serious welfare reform/removal. Social Security and Medicare are a net negative to the country. They have to be dealt with or the US will crumble financially. The other thing is a decentralization of the banking system. That could take many forms but the Fed run mess we are in now just sucks money out of each our payment checks each month. Just strike down some laws limiting the government control of currency. Let markets decide what is most reliable and here is an even bigger thing, most anonymous.
     
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  8. texas_ex2000

    texas_ex2000 2,500+ Posts

    Wrong. Everyone wants to think the Netherlands is just a fine dandy place and that's what the US can be. Well, the other scenario and more likely given the demographics and economics of the USA compared to the Netherlands is Yemen. ISIS hasn't destroyed Yemen. Khat destroyed Yemen. Khat, a mind altering stimulant much less addictive than marijuana, was/is an existential threat to Yemen. One thing federal governments are supposed to do is to defend their people from existential threats. I'm not an anarchist living off the grid. I'm a conservative and republican and I live in a society where my life and well being depends on other people to be responsible on how they carry themselves and their work and their state of mind. Parents in this election talk about doing right by their kids. I bet the vast majority of swing vote responsible parents would say that drugs are bad for their kids and worry about their kids' exposure to drugs. Drugs aren't liberty, on the contrary they steal it from you. And btw, so does prostitution.

    Well, that's the problem with Libertarians, Republicans, and Democrats. I make no bones that I could be described as a neoconservative. That term has a negative connotation. I don't really care for terms but more accurately I believe in speak softly carry a big stick, peace through strength, an unmatched military that we have proven to use when we say we will and when we warn bad actors, and use our military to either support other countries/allies or prosecute operations when allies do not have the ability in crises where there is a humanitarian moral imperative to do so. The cost, while very high, of investing and building our military is much less than the loss of superpower influence and leverage on our economy and security.



    There might be a time, Stat, when fighting two wars on two fronts might be necessary and unfortunately the preferred option than to not fight and suffer more casualties and hardship. And the best way to avoid that tough choice in the first place is to be ready for it and active in the world as a leader. The fact is we are citizens of a superpower. There are negatives to that - superpowers are targets. But as evidenced by the millions of immigrants who had decided to become Americans, there are huge benefits to being a superpower that countries like Argentina, Portugal, Netherlands, Australia, Italy, Japan, Mexico, even the UK do not have.

    In this globalized world of asymmetric threats and weapons, being a superpower is probably more important than it ever was for our people. Our enemies - Russia, China, and ISIS, still subscribe to the philosophy of conquest. Does that mean we should be fighting the Russians outside St. Petersburg in the dead of winter or China in the jungles of South Asia? No, but it means we shouldn't stick are heads in the sand thinking security stops at the border.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  9. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  10. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    pretty good

     
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  11. 4th_floor

    4th_floor Dude, where's my laptop?

    I haven't touched pot in 30 years and never used any other legal drug. But I think it is immoral to arrest black and brown kids for pot and let the overwhelming majority of white kids smoke and deal pot to their hearts content. Legalize pot for everyone. It's happening anyway. You might as well get used to the idea.

    I am against abortion and think it is a sin. I want to end all public funding of any group which promotes or offers abortions. However, the police and courts have much better things to do than to prosecute abortions.

    I am a Libertarian, but I disagree with Libertarians who are true isolationists, including Ron Paul. However, our foreign policy has devolved into a total mess since the Korean War. While do need to keep active in the fight against terror, we need to be a lot more careful before committing troops, planes, or missiles. If we start something, we need to be prepared to finish it. That means waging a full war until the enemy is completely conquered. The little half-assed excursions we have undertaken in the former Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria,...... have to stop. And close all the foreign bases that don't have a reason for existence.
     
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