Grading the Team's Performance-Week 9

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Hpslugga, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    [​IMG]

    That's a true team win, folks. I see chatter about the end of game offensive play calling. Will not comment as I did not get to see the last few minutes (if anyone knows when the game is re-airing, that info would be appreciated).

    Very disappointed in the receivers as that threw the whole passing game off. Wide open drops, some bad routes being run, and even Shane had a few brainfarts that would have been more costly against defenses that don't suck complete *** like the Rectum Tech Fanny Bandit defense. Fortunately D'Onta Foreman was once again up to the task of showcasing his badassedness to the world and was once again able to post up a Heisman-worthy (certainly Walker-worthy) performance.

    Defensively it started out as more of the same old ****, but slowly they started forcing the issue and Tech had to earn every point they scored after the second quarter. Still not up to standard, but a lot better than what we've seen and against the nation's premiere (statistically at least) offense.

    Special Teams-f**k me. Again, giveth and taketh away.
     
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  2. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Hoops, I have a question about the defensive side. ONe of the criteria is to hold the opponent to 21 or less points. that seems unrealistic in the modern B12. What do you think?
     
  3. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    All metrics that have those sorts of numbers are based on nationwide criterion that reflects the Top 25 in said category. West Virginia is the only Big 12 team doing this, and it begs the question: are the Big 12's offenses really that dominant, or are the defenses just that bad? I tend to think it's both, but honestly there have been numerous instances that suggest it's more the latter than the former. So no, it's not unrealistic to expect Texas' defense to not suck as much as they have w/r/t points allowed.
     
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  4. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I agree with HP. Numerous bowl games have shown the Big 12 offenses can be stopped by teams playing proper defense. As HP already pointed out, WVU held Texas Tech, TCU and Kansas State under 21 points.
     
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  5. wadster

    wadster 5,000+ Posts

    One of the things to remember is just the sheer number of possessions when both teams go up tempo. Total yds almost become irrelevant. What would be a better stat is avg pts/drive. When we play another uptempo team, you are literally seeing another 3-4 drives per game per team. It's not that bad to hold a team to 450 yds and 28 pts. In fact if you do, you're going to win most if not all the time. The goal really needs to be hold the opponent to under 30. If you are scoring mid 30s and above, life is good.
     
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  6. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    I think Bama or Michigan or even LSU could do it.

    Personally I hate the style of game the Big II plays. Even with a 14 Point lead late in the game, you can't relax.
     
  7. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    Florida went into the locker room up 21-3 on Tennessee and got killed allowing 35 2nd half points. It was not good defense.

    I saw the Alabama LSU game. There was some bad offense. Bad coaching. Bad execution.

    I think superior athletes on defense can offset powerful offenses. That's what I think about B12 v SEC bowl games.
     
  8. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    I'm not going to lower the standard just so these guys can pass. That might be what a state does so that their educational systems can qualify for federal funding but it has no place here. I take several issues with suggestions like these, which is why I was very clear at the beginning of the season about absolutely not budging on standards:

    1) Again, they're based on the Top 25 in said category. So this year, look at who that is. I see at least 10 of those teams (I don't know about some others) who either themselves are running spread/hurry-up systems and/or are playing in conferences where the great majority of the teams are.

    So Alabama, for example, is sporting a hurry-up offense of their own. In that conference, such systems are the norm (Bama, Auburn, A&M, Ole Miss, Miss. St, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, Florida, and even Georgia). They're surrendering 13 points a game on a schedule that has thus far included Ole Miss, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Texas A&M.

    The same is true for Washington and Colorado out in the PAC 12 where they have to face the likes of the Arizona teams, Washington State, Utah, Cal, Oregon, UCLA, and they themselves also use those systems. It's not like the Top 25 is full of B1G teams (although they do have a few).

    2) You used 28/450 as an outline. Ok, so this year that would put a team as low as 67th in the country in scoring defense and 103rd in total defense. You also said "under 30." Well, that would drop the scoring defense to 82nd in the country in scoring defense.

    I'm trying really hard not to be insulting, but I see no value in patting ourselves on the back when we do what 80+ teams are doing on average. The Top 25 is a much sounder goal. We shouldn't be interested in dropping standards until the defense starts getting better. Or to put it in political terms, "Vote No on No Defense Left Behind."

    Again the issue with the Big 12 is that the defenses not named West Virginia suck ***. It's not like the offenses are as truly dominant as they were in 2008. The fact that 45-42 games are the norm does not mean we need to just accept it as a force of nature; just a force of suck *** defense.
     
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  9. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    All round good numbers and as pointed out a "team" win and effort. Lots to work on still, but I'm excited to see some solid improvement. :hookem:
     
  10. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    I don't think that's what he was saying, just that points/possession and yards/possession are more relevant than total points and yards since both teams are getting those extra possessions.

    Not counting kneel downs to end the half, Baylor had 16 possession against Texas, and Kansas State only had 10. Baylor may have scored more against us, but they needed 6 extra opportunities to get those 10 extra points.
     
  11. wadster

    wadster 5,000+ Posts

    T
    Look I understand this is your numbers. I just have a different set of metrics I care about. Points/possession, yds/possession is a much better read on a D then yds and points and it just makes logical sense IMHO. Notre Dame had 7 possession the ENTIRE game this week. Yes, I know that's not the norm, but you also can't compare Alabama as an uptempo team to Texas or Baylor either. I watched most of the Bama game this week and never saw their OLine running to the line like in the Big 12. As to 28 pts, if we had held teams to 28 pts, we'd be 8-1 with the lone loss to KState.
     
  12. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    The extra possessions do not automatically yield those yards and points. Whether its 5 possessions or 10, you still have to actually move the ball and score. I reject your premise 1,000% and I've data to support my claim:

    Once again, this is based on the Top 25 of the previous year. Who were those teams?

    [​IMG]

    Just to save the reader time, that translates out to 12.5 possessions a game.

    Here's the Big 12

    [​IMG]

    13.5 possessions a game...1 more than the former group.

    So it's all well and good to compare 2 games where one was 10 per team and the other was 16, but that has nothing to do with the national mean. Those are outliers, even for the Big 12. The Big 12 teams average 1 possession extra per game compared to the very best scoring defenses in the United States. It's not like they're all getting 16 possessions per game.

    The poster you and I are referring to literally said "The goal really needs to be hold the opponent to under 30." That only makes sense if we're willing to concede that the extra possession in question ALWAYS results in a TD. In a conference where TD's constitute less than a full third of all possessions (roughly the same as the former, btw), that's not a reasonable assumption. Again, what these stats overwhelmingly show is that the Big 12 defenses are just Donald Trump-caliber terrible. I'm not willing to drop standards based on that, nor am I willing to drop standards based on the fact that this conference's offenses average 1 more possession per game than the set of teams to which I compare them. Aiming for the Top 25 is a far sounder proposition.
     
  13. aUTfan

    aUTfan 2,500+ Posts

    I think in college it's more cyclical, I think the current state you are correct but when the big XII was strong no i don't think you were correct, i think when Leach was at Tech and UT prior to 2010, plus OU, TCU, Baylor I don't think there was any one that could stop them. Right now the offenses are weak in the big XII AND the defenses.

    To add to my point, the NFL can't stop great offenses either, the QB's and receivers are just better and they have handicapped the defenses at the same time with rule changes = high octane offenses.
     
  14. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Washington beat California 66-27 at Cal. Notre Dame is 3-6 and just lost to Navy. Houston has lost two games. Arizona State scored 68 on Tech and only 32 on UTSA. WVU only beat 5-4 BYU by 3 and 2-7 Missouri by 11. Sadly, the Big 12 is just really bad this year. The defenses in this conferences are just terrible.

    Our defense is no longer completely terrible but it is still really bad. In our last three games we've given up 405 yards, 625 yards and 482 yards. We are bending and not breaking so far against our weak schedule. However, lowering the standards would be very foolish seeing as how they are already lowered by virtue of being in the weakest power conference.
     
  15. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    There you have it.
     
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  16. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    No argument there.

    I am not calling for standards to be dropped.

    That's fine. I think top 25 in points/game is meaningful, but top 25 in points/possession would be slightly more meaningful. That's not a lowering of standards at all.

    No argument there either. But let's say some team somehow did only get 5 possessions and scored 27 points. Would you say based on that this offense failed in it's job of putting up points?
     
  17. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    2 things:

    1. What those two tables should have shown you was that possessions per game among the top 25 scoring defenses and the Big 12 defenses are not as different as people here seem to think. I'm sure Wisconsin has had games where they had 10 possessions. I'm sure Alabama has had games where they had 16. But average it out, whether if it's the teams individually or the entire body of teams, and you'll see that those teams' offenses only take the field one time less per game than a run-of-the-mill Big 12 team. It makes no sense to go by points per possession especially when you consider that even if you went by any meaningful standard on that criteria, you're gonna see red and orange in roughly the same places.

    2. What I was referring to was the 30 ppg suggestion when I referred to lowering standards.
    Look, to the extent a team uses standards and grade reports like these, they contextualize them to the players. So in that case they'll say "yeah we failed to reach the points goal, and that's because you [defense] played so terribly that you were allowing the other team to stay on the field for 6 minutes or more on each possession."
     
  18. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin

    Politics belongs on the West Mall. Stick to football here.
     
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