wow ricky williams?

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by weller1, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. weller1

    weller1 25+ Posts

  2. hornsfan1026

    hornsfan1026 25+ Posts

    '"I usually don't consider where I am, because I'm Ricky Williams, and I think that is good enough..."

    There's something wrong with that statement, but I can't put my finger on what it is.

    Bottom line, the police have every right to stop and question someone who is acting suspiciously, and it doesn't matter what his name is.

    My first take is that there is more to the story than either side is giving us.

    Hook you
     
  3. Hoop

    Hoop 500+ Posts

    That statement was made to an Austin radio station. If it was heard in context, I bet none of us even worry about it as it was part of a discussion that is not published on the Internet.

    When you go to other places, especially smaller communities where things are a little more apparent, you might draw some attention by walking through the woods or jumping over a fence when that's normally the domain of bad actors (not saying that's the case here). The home owner apparently lives adjacent to a hotel. That home owner has probably seen a thing or two due to that proximity.
     
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  4. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    That's what most people do when staying at a motel in a town they don't know, they take a walk into the woods of an unknown property owner, climbing fences to do so.
     
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  5. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    I listened to that on the radio yesterday. Nothing Ricky Williams said should be controversial. Yes, context does help.
    He even explained that he didn't hold anything against the police. He said they have to respond to calls that are made so they can't help it. He just believed that no one would have called the police on him had he not been black. And from the video you can see that Williams is very cooperative too.
    And that had he not been "Ricky Williams - Heisman trophy winner" the police probably would not have treated him as fairly as they did. Both of which are true.
    And it was strange for him to have experienced that and then go get received as an honored guest of a country club that would not have them if not for his elite athlete status.

    If you find that controversial, you are probably white and empathy challenged.
     
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  6. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    [QUOTE="Bottom line, the police have every right to stop and question someone who is acting suspiciously, and it doesn't matter what his name is.
    [/QUOTE]

    I believe that is called "stop and frisk" and has been ruled unconditional by the Supreme Court.
     
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  7. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin

  8. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    It sounds like in Tyler the police (and locals) know that at night the black citizens tend to go to sleep where they live; as do the white citizens. I bet a white guy dressed in a suit who was on the street in a black part of town at night would stand out as suspicious, too.

    I'm not saying there should be a "black" side of town. I don't think police are trying to make it that way either. I'm just saying that given that that living pattern exists, some things stand out.

    Sounds like you guys think there is more to the story, but it also may reflect not necessarily that he got special treatment for being a great athlete but because he had poise, education and an explanation for whatever he was doing, defusing any sense that he was a criminal. By comparison, if it had been Pac Man Jones or J Manziel, it may have ended differently--not because of race but attitude.

    I'm just rambling....
     
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  9. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    Valid points. VYFan about acting composed and cooperating.
    However, if you have ever lived in a place like Tyler, you know that sometimes that makes no difference at all. and there are definitely still unspoken rules about "staying in your place" and the police can escalate things for no reason, too.

    Was RW climbing over a fence or what have you? we don't know. If you are inclined to believe the caller, yeah. In the interview the caller also said he saw a man "who happened to be black" too. So skin color sounds like it was a factor, and to me (if you listen to the way he said that ) it sounded to me like he was trying to downplay that part of his decision making to call the police. I don't know why the caller should be so credible.
     
  10. LonghornMD

    LonghornMD 100+ Posts

    "He just believed that no one would have called the police on him had he not been black. "

    BS. ANYONE acting suspiciously (wandering behind people's fences, climbing over fences into private property, picking up and attempting to carry-off private property not belonging to you) as Ricky was would have had the same thing happen to them, regardless of skin color. You think if a white man was doing the same thing that the police wouldn't have been called? Absolutely they would have been, and rightfully so.

    The police have to go by what is reported to them when they respond to a call... not try to determine if the details of the call are factually accurate before responding. That's why they go to investigate. They are keeping our neighborhoods safer from criminals of ALL skin colors by doing so.

    "And that had he not been "Ricky Williams - Heisman trophy winner" the police probably would not have treated him as fairly as they did. Both of which are true."

    Also BS. You can't make that statement as fact. That's conjecture based on the assumption that racism is rampant in everyone and a motive for anything that happens between 2 people of different skin color are involved. It's that kind of thinking that is in fact racist.

    Are there racists people in this world? Certainly. And that includes a palpable anti-white movement in this country. Is EVERYONE racist and EVERY action racially motivated? Definitely not. That's ridiculous. We can't use race as an excuse every time someone gets questioned or punished for doing something they shouldn't be doing. Personally, I love Ricky. Seems like a great guy, doesn't hurt anyone, and for the most part he represents the University well. But does that mean that it's ok for him carry-out odd, suspicious activities without reproach? Certainly not. He got confronted by the police because they were called to respond by concerned citizens. And they did their job. If Ricky doesn't like being questioned by the po-po, don't do strange things that are borderline criminal (or could be perceived as such...... climbing other people's fences into private property, picking up private property). That's what happens in a society. You can't do whatever the heck you want. There is some degree of conformity to a set of rules or laws that we all adhere to.

    This is a non-issue. And certainly not a race thing.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  11. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    LOL ok, that's settled then.:rolleyes1: Ricky Williams' experience = invalid.

    Tell me, then, why is it that you believe so strongly he was climbing over a fence and acting suspiciously? You have the word of one person who called the police.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  12. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    yeah, MD, that sums it up for me too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  13. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    Unconditional...I need to look that up.
     
  14. Galvestonhorn

    Galvestonhorn 250+ Posts

    "live in a place like Tyler"? Thats hilarious. You think Tyler is a sister town to Vidor?
     
  15. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    when someone calls the police to give a description, race should come up. age, height, race, hair, etc. He didn't say ricky was "acting suspicious," he said "it was suspicious being back there."

    i'll be honest. i'm an explorer type when i'm bored. if the "back yard" looks like a field next to a motel, i might go walk around back there. then try to slink away or hide if a dog started barking at me and a guy calls out from a distance. i could see this easiiy happening.
     
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  16. Brad Austin

    Brad Austin 2,500+ Posts

    Just checked out that area using the earth function on Google maps.

    I don't care what color the person was wandering around the fence line in the trees behind those houses and later jumping a fence into the church lot...any homeowner would be suspicious and concerned.

    It's not some wooded area you'd expect people to stroll around in for exercise or leisure. The relatively thin group of trees buffers that row of residential homes from the commercial businesses and major roadway on the other side.

    Why would those homeowners expect anyone from the commercial side to be fumbling around in there? Anyone would be suspicious and watch the person.

    I also believe if a single black woman was living in one of those homes and saw the same suspicious black man, she'd likely alert police.

    It's a judgement call on the odds of what you're dealing with. In a situation like that, the homeowner is a moron if not using general crime stats to assess the risk.

    In this case I think almost any big dude (regardless of color) back there doing that would've been reported.

    That being said, if the subject was innocent like Ricky, of course the black man would most likely have a harder time convincing police of his story.

    In a case of rightful high suspicion like this and police knowing crime stats of their area, is that wrong? It all depends I guess.

    I can see it both ways. There's definitely empathy deserved on both sides.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  17. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    #RickyBeingRicky
     
  18. HomeBrewHorn

    HomeBrewHorn 100+ Posts

    After watching the dash cam video, the most disturbing part of this is that one of the cops thought Earl Campbell was "the football coach." :idk:
     
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  19. LonghornMD

    LonghornMD 100+ Posts

    1. Didn't say Ricky's experience was invalid. Everyone's experience in any situation is "valid" to the extent that it's their perception. But that doesn't mean that their perception of reality is accurate. Ricky feeling like he is being racially profiled doesn't mean that he was. Could just mean that he was acting suspiciously by other citizens, and they wanted the police to check it out. Ricky certainly didn't dispute the details of what was reported to the police. So the reported details seem to be accurate.

    2. The police have to go by the details reported. I didn't personally see Ricky climbing over fences or peering into backyards, or picking up private property. And neither did the police officers. Those could all be false statements. But those activities were reported by more than 1 person (read the police report.... neighbor, construction worker, etc). And that warrants a quick police investigation into what may or may not be going on. And as I stated above, Ricky didn't dispute the details of what he was reportedly doing. So it seems reasonable to believe that he was in fact doing those things.

    Ricky didn't get arrested, detained, or his civil rights violated. He got questioned. That's all. Well, maybe he got his ego hurt. But I can live with that.
     
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  20. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Were any of the U.S. Olympic men's swim team (from UT) with Ricky at the time? :idk:
     
  21. Lncn

    Lncn < 25 Posts

    In all seriousness...

    Can we just legalize marijuana use so he doesn't have to go hide in the woods to light up?
     
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  22. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    As a former swimmer (not at UT) If they smell like chlorine, there is probably cause for search and seizure. I believe in detaining and questioning swimmers on site. Its not a matter of if they wreck shop, but when.
     
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  23. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    Ok, well I read the article. Should have started there before posting. Also, that google map was very helpful.

    My impression was changed: this was in the afternoon in broad daylight. The original location of where RW went was, in fact, on hotel property, even if it backed to a yard with a barking dog. There is a fence of sorts between the hotel parking lot and the church parking lot, but both parking lots are widely open to the street they front on--it's not a fence keeping anything in or out. I may be more comfortable than most around churches but walking around church grounds is not like walking around other private property. Finding a tape measure on the ground supposing it to be abandoned but handing it over when asked is not theft. Anyway, conclusion: RW not really out of line.

    Still, agree that if police get a report, they need to go check it out. That church also is apparently a school. So, ask a few questions, verify that there was nothing to worry about, and that's it. Conclusion: police not out of line.

    Don't really see a race element. Too bad that gets attached to the story.
     
  24. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Questioning isn't frisking though, so I'm a bit confused by this. I've been stopped by police before just for walking late at night through an plaza in a small town with a bunch of small shops that were closed. He was worried I was stealing or considering breaking in because why else would I be walking through there (because it was cutting diagonally across the hypotenuse rather than following the sidewalk to a corner). There was questioning, seeing my ID, taking down information, but no frisking. Seemed like he was bored had nothing better to do.

    I think he was trying to downplay that play. That doesn't really say anything one way or the other about whether it deserved to be downplayed or not. When calling the police, one ought to provide as much identifying info as possible. As a white individual, I would feel a little awkward calling the police on someone with darker skin when I had to describe this to the dispatcher because I would be worried I would be incorrectly perceived as a racist for it.
     
  25. meadowlark

    meadowlark 100+ Posts

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ^^^ it's actually quite simple ricky.....
     
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  26. wadster

    wadster 5,000+ Posts

    I have neighbors like this. If there is a door to door salesman that makes someone uncomfortable, they call the cops and post on our neighborhood facebook group to "watch out". I'm pretty chill and unless someone's confronting me, I live and let live. Just because I saw someone walking around, I wouldn't call the cops. Ricky had every right to walk in the woods. When I had long hair I used to get stopped all the time for no reason and it does piss you off. He handled it about as well as can be expected.
     
  27. Omniscient.one

    Omniscient.one 500+ Posts

    Nothing really "wow" about it. Went on a walk, maybe to get high, in an unfamiliar place and got scared because as he said he was in the south in a white neighborhood. Had he not had the documented mental issues you wouldn't have used "wow", kinda sad on your part.
     
  28. Hoop

    Hoop 500+ Posts

    This is funny to me in a way because I have a personal experience that is similar (to the guy who called police). I used to live in north central Austin. For the record and for this story, I am white and I work from home. We lived in the middle of the block in the middle of the neighborhood - meaning we lived in a house that wasn't near a transit center or bus route, and didn't see much foot traffic, even on the street unless it was a neighbor.

    One day, around 1pm, a guy just jumped into my backyard over an 8 foot fence from the house behind me. The house behind me had been vacant (except for old possessions) for 2 years or so and had been broken into a couple of times. Anyway, this guy was white and had a backpack on, and didn't appear to be a neighbor and certainly wasn't acting like one (meaning jumping into our backyard - not something I had ever seen a neighbor do). He basically just walked through our backyard and out the gate.

    I called the police for a couple of reasons: 1. I didn't recognize him, 2. He was coming from a yard with a house that had been a burglarized before with a backpack, and 3. it was strange behavior. The police were there quickly. I identified him by his race (white) and his clothing, etc. They caught up with him, contacted him, and concluded no crime was committed. They came back and told me he told them he just wanted to take a shortcut. That's the weirdest shortcut ever; jumping a fence in the middle of the block. He was only 4 houses down either direction from major walkable thoroughfares and he would have come into the neighborhood on one of those streets and walk halfway up the block to get where we was, anyway. Who knows?

    My point is that sometimes people do weird things or are vibrating on a different frequency. That's fine, but it's also good to be aware of one's surroundings, especially where other people reside full time. Those folks have their own expectations of normal behavior. I mean, seeing a man riding a bike with only a thong on down Shoal Creek Blvd was normal to me, but in 7 years only one person hopped over my backyard fence.

    It doesn't seem strange to me that someone would call the police in this instance (black guy or no). That said, I obviously don't know the details of Ricky's situation.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  29. PAboundHorn

    PAboundHorn < 25 Posts

    I believe that is called "stop and frisk" and has been ruled unconditional by the Supreme Court.[/QUOTE]

    Stop and Frisk was not found to be unconstitutional -- maybe unethical or not effective.
    http://www.factcheck.org/2016/09/is-stop-and-frisk-unconstitutional/
     
  30. Hoop

    Hoop 500+ Posts

    This is the real deal since 1968:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

    The police have the opportunity to investigate a (possible) crime. During that time, if the police feel there is a danger to themselves or the public, they can frisk that individual if they have reasonable suspicion that person is armed. This still happens in NYC and everywhere in the U.S. where there are police. I think it is reasonable to most and it's definitely constitutional.

    I haven't really read too much about this particular incident and didn't hear Ricky on KLBJ, but it's likely he consented to the search as most innocent people do.

     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017

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