Tom Herman / James Franklin

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by caryhorn, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    I wanted James Franklin hired three years ago instead of Charlie Strong. I have followed Franklin's record at Penn State. He was 11-3 last year, his third season. Quite a contrast with C. S. whose consecutive 5-7's didn't cut it here.
    I suspect most of us would be OK with Franklin's record. He won the BiG last year and barely lost the Rose Bowl (by 3 points). But he was not so successful in his first two years: 7-6 and 7-6; 1-1 in bowls. His bosses showed patience. More than the Penn State fan base, who weren't so happy. I think another 7-6 record last year could have been the end for Franklin. I'm glad for him he did so well.

    Would his record, had he been hired here, and had the same results been ok? It would for me. And you? Could you have stayed on board with him after consecutive 7-6 seasons?

    If Tom Herman goes 7-6 and 7-6 will we have the patience to be ok with that? And gladly give him a third season, no questions asked? I am making a vow now to do just that. Give Tom a full three years without going nuts if he doesn't do as well as I hope. But the third year better be significantly better!

    Franklin's progress, the excellent 3rd season and great start this year plus his excellent recruiting seems to bode very well for Penn States future. I want that badly for Texas.

    I reserve the right to 2nd guess, criticize and ***** at dumb coaching decisions. But I want to give Herman a chance to learn on the job, as long as he shows progress in wins and losses. 7-6, 7-6, and then 10+ wins coupled with great recruiting works for me. You?
     
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  2. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 5,000+ Posts

    I think Herman will get at least the same amount of patience as Strong received.
     
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  3. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Considering the tons of baggage State Penn was trying to unload, the baggage Franklin carries with him did not look so bad to them. Plenty of other places don't have that many "bellmen" to carry that **** away. The Forty Acres is one such place.
     
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  4. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    this is not specific to you, caryhorn, but everyone who ever complains about football coaches, quaterbacks, GMs, etc, is way nore likely to be right than wrong.

    very few coaches at the level of the University of Texas are DKR or Mack. or Urban Myer or Nick Saban succeed. The only thing someone has to be is a B itch to be right a lot of the time. the success rates at elite programs is pitiful.

    i agree with you that franklin was a better choice than charlie. i thought that then too.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  5. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    Charlie didn’t get any support from the AD in the first two years. By then it’d have taken a miracle ... it wasn’t to be.

    I thought it was a foul to have terminated him before the end of the contract.

    So ... I too will offer my opinion of coaching decisions, but support retaining Herman through the end of his contract ... then assess.

    If he’s that much better than Charlie, or anyone not leaps above ... sure thing ... you sign another contract and ride.
     
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  6. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 2,500+ Posts

    I said after the SJSU game we never dominated a team like that under Strong, even a bad team. There's definitely some good signs of progress. Players appear to finally be learning how to play the game. There's definitely more effort. But Tom's also made some decisions that defy all logic that without we probably would be 3-0. But we also probably would have been blown out in those 2 games had changes not been made.

    From what I remember, the turnaround was quicker and more impactful under MB. So I'm not sure what we have. Maybe another Fred Akers, Makovic in his best season, but maybe not another MB or DKR. As I said on the other thread, I'm still on the boat, but I sure would like to see better in game decisions. Time will tell.
     
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  7. IvanDiabloHorn

    IvanDiabloHorn 1,000+ Posts

    No I did not want Franklin. Too much smoke coming out of his tenure at Vandy. His story at Penn St. hasn't been told as yet.


    No losing records. 7-6 is not acceptable in year two.
     
  8. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Amor Fati

    I have been impressed with Franklin and his Penn State team as well, he is doing something right up there
     
  9. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    My thought was if we are prepared to send the previous staff packing and pay them all that money to leave we better spend top dollar and get a guy that will win day one no more reboots so If he goes back to back 7-6 he gone no third year at all. He has been giving everything that he has asked for with no resistance. Charlie having to deal with Patterson alone was enough to merit a 3rd year.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  10. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Mack Brown's first 3 games:
    New Mexico State - W - 66-36
    UCLA - L - 31-49
    KSU - L - 7-48

    Those results were obtained while inheriting a team that was coming off a three year run in which they were twice conference champions, followed by only one losing season. They had a top flight offense led by a far better than average O line and the eventual Heisman winner, which provided a significantly better security blanket for the true freshman QB than our current O line and RB situation does. They were used to winning, but had one anomaly of a season under a coach that pretty much nobody liked as a person.

    Tom Herman is also 1-2, has not lost any game by more than 10 points. Yet Tom has inherited a team without a winning record in the past three seasons, let alone a conference championship, with an O line already badly damaged by injuries and a RB group that doesn't feature anybody even close to the level of Ricky Williams during his SR season. They are not used to winning; the majority of kids on the team have never experienced a winning season in college under a coach most everybody liked as a person.

    I'd say your memory of Mack Brown's turnaround, based on the first three games of both men's tenure, is deeply flawed. Tom has a much steeper hill to climb in terms of instilling a winning culture than Mack Brown ever did, and at least to this old man, he is progressing at quite an acceptable rate.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
  11. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    I hope you're right, Sangre. I'm weary of the current situation ... which includes every year since 09.

    I'm ready to see the stadium crews add to the list of conference champion ... pretty pronto ... and that it's a Big XII conference ... playing for all the marbles because the conference is just THAT competitive ... like the SEC is alleged to be.

    Still wish we'd have kept Sam's shirt on so he could mature a little bit more and retain the 4 years of eligibility. Now it seems we'll have a QB controversy when Boo returns ... and the kicker is; Sam provides a better running threat.

    But we don't run the ball! So ... IDK. I have no reason to assume anything but that Herman is doing his best to put Texas back in the number 1 chair ... I'm just not sure playing Sam this year was going to materially affect the rate of return. Assuming, of course, champion is again the Title of the Longhorn Football team during the course of this first contract, let alone beyond.
     
  12. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 2,500+ Posts

    My comment was really based more on people’s perceptions on where the program was headed more than actual results on the field. I should’ve been more specific. I don’t remember reading anything about bizarre decision making in the media or internet forums in Mack’s first 3 games like what we’re reading about TH.

    Also, since the year before was route 66 and our performance against UCLA was much improved there just seemed to be a general perception that the program had been turned around and was headed in the right direction immediately. I’m not getting that vibe about TH. Hopefully that changes.
     
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  13. I35

    I35 5,000+ Posts

    You know last year our first game gave us a lot of optimism because we beat a highly ranked Notre Dame Team. As we found out they were way overrated and so was our win. I'm kind of thinking we have the reverse situation this year. We went into the Maryland game favored by 19 I believe. So we had expectations of a win. Maybe this year our first opponent was way underrated. I'm thinking as the season goes on Maryland will end up with a pretty good record. I do believe if we would have got up for them like we did ND last year or USC last weekend then we would have won by around 3 TD's.
     
  14. Chinstrap

    Chinstrap 1,000+ Posts

    Correct me if I am wrong, but Franklin, among others, did not want any part of Texas and the drama around the prigram at that time. Wasn't Charlie a late desperation grab?
     
  15. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    Kind of yes because Charlie had committed to take the Tennessee job but they wouldn’t let him bring hurtt with him and then Texas called they said no to hurtt also but it’s texas not Tennessee 5 mill a year no brainer
     
  16. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    With the rape cases pending, among other serious problems in West Nashville, Franklin was a little too toxic, but with the cluster f**k that was Bill Powers's humping the puppy on the AD hire, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Franklin wouldn't answer the phone.

    I don't think Strong was a "desperation grab" because there were plenty of more qualified coaches wanting the job, none whom were given a chance because they didn't fit the "Billie Powers Legacy Model".
     
  17. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Hornfans did not exist until the end of the 1998 season. The only message board around was the Statesman thing. Social media was in its very infancy when Mack took over. It's hard to compare media and internet forum activity between the two since said activity barely existed at the start of Mack's time.
     
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  18. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    It wasn’t that many coaches available at that time. They all got brand new fresh spanking new deals when we started looking. Same as when Shaka and Pierce were hired they locked up all the top guys as quick as they could.
     
  19. CB

    CB < 25 Posts

    I thought it was foul to lose to Kansas and to get shut out against Iowa St. Charlie was pathetic as a coach at Texas. He was treated with all the respect, or lack thereof, he deserved.

    And if someone wants to terminate me while guaranteeing me $5 million per yer, I doubt I would complain.
     
  20. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 2,500+ Posts

    Regardless, Mack didn't lose to team he was supposed to beat by almost 3 TD's in his first game. That's not a very good way to start.
     
  21. ShAArk92

    ShAArk92 1,000+ Posts

    Well, as I've said before ... without support from the top, it really didn't matter. I think Charlie was sold a bill of goods and ... like @SabreHorn said ... the hire looked good for Bill Powers and that was more important than building a good coaching staff. This administration is known for being envious of the Head Football Coach, after all. Must be in the DNA of those people.

    Combine the failed support for the rest of the staff (until the Tulsa OC hire) ... with the wholesale walking papers of a significant part of the squad with significant experience ... yeah, it's gonna be a tough row to hoe. Evidently too tough.

    It's easy to dog pile. It's more difficult to analyze the situation.

    The complaint isn't about "you" but the guy(s) who hired ya and then refused to support. But ... that requires analysis and dog piling is easier.
     
  22. dukesteer

    dukesteer 5,000+ Posts

    I'm glad we didn't hire Franklin although I have little doubt that he would have fared better, probably much better, than Strong. And I have to add that Strong was a very good guy, but a terrible HC for us.

    If Franklin had been hired he would be our HC today and Herman would have never entered into the conversation. In my mind, Herman is the right guy and I believe that observation will become evident by the OU game, which we will win. That said, I will second guess TH when he or his staff makes bonehead decisions and so far, I have seen many more than I expected to see.
     
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  23. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 5,000+ Posts

    no kidding... But maybe Maryland is a good well-coached team and Vegas was mistaken about the point spread.
     
  24. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Agreed.

    But I will say I view it in the context of being the first game under the new staff. That day I saw a Texas team play an awful lot like it did under Charlie Strong. I haven't seen that in either of the subsequent games, which makes me hopeful that the new fundamentals, the new techniques, are becoming habit. In other words, the new culture is taking hold.

    Would you agree that, had we beaten Maryland, less than 1% of the angst filled posts on this board would have been typed?
     
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  25. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 2,500+ Posts

    Only if it included not saying stupid stuff like I don't field goals and trying for unrealistic 4th downs.
     
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  26. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Or maybe not.

    UCLA and KSU finished a combined 21-4 and both ended the year in the top 10. Not sure yet if USC is that good.
     
  27. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    There was the newsgroup rec.sport.football.college board for the college unix users.
     
  28. utempire

    utempire 1,000+ Posts

    In my opinion, Herman is the right choice. If we didn't get him somebody else would have. I have no doubt he will turn this around. Strong was a desperation hire and I think he was a decent coach but his assistants let him down. Penn St. is one of those programs that doesn't stay down very long, like us.
     
  29. PropositionJoe

    PropositionJoe 2,500+ Posts

    i remember being so convinced that jim mora jr was gonna be yalls coach that i was going to put money on it in vegas. every time i checked sportsbook pages on who was going to be the HC at texas, charlie strong's name was always at the top...from day 1 he was the prohibitive favorite.

    not sure that he was a desperation grab at all.
     
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  30. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    I think all the unrealistic expectations that we'd get somebody like Nick Saban, Chip Kelly, or Jon Gruden made it look that way.
     
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