Wide Receivers Never Open

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by LikeMike, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Hoop

    Hoop 500+ Posts

    Or Quan.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Hoop

    Hoop 500+ Posts

    :clap:
     
  3. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 5,000+ Posts

    back in the day when huddles were used a WR could say "Sam I would have been wide open if I went deep,look for me" but we don't talk in huddles no more because we don't have huddles. Do y'all miss huddles?
    Also I have noticed that receivers don't bother to get the DB off balance or make the DB think he's going one way then suddenly cuts back the other way. It's like trying to confuse a DB doesn't exist anymore. Then they wonder why they can't get separation. It's like we run these predictable vanilla routes. Well how bout using false body language. Duvernay did an out and up that was two cuts and was wide open. Getting separation is crucial. Then maybe Sam or Shane doesn't have to run so much. Yea confusing DBs with false body language is a lost art. One play I like is when a wide receiver Sprint's down field straight down field and then all the sudden plants his feet turns around maybe comes in a few steps and if the ball is thrown at the right time we have a successful 15 to 20 yard play right there. Then after the catch he steps toward the inside gets the DB who has recovered by then to go that way but cuts back to the outside and goes up field. It's not rocket science. Maybe we do that already but it doesn't seem like it. I can't help it. I have played a lot of football in my life and I always new how to sell a fake and get open, with just average speed.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  4. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin

    I’m still amazed that after going down 20-0 we went on a 24-3 run to take the lead. Too little too late but our D was getting after them pretty good towards the end. Except for pass coverage. Blah.

    The first half was starting to feel like we were in for another early 2000s beatdown.

    Proud of the team for continuing to fight and make them earn every bit of it.
     
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  5. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    The couple or so screen plays we ran had great success. Warren peeling out into the flat had great success. Not sure why we only do these 2 or 3 times over the course of a game.

    Also, seems elementary, but why are we not doing very quick slants, etc.? Oddly, the Texas Gameday crew thinks Beck called a very good game. I guess I will have to defer to them.
     
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  6. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan SEC here we come!!

    Yup,

    With the pressure ou brought Sat. the Horns needed more quick developing pass plays. Plays that get guys open in a little space and with a little momentum. The screen plays worked brilliantly. On Sat. if the mid to longer patterns are covered, are not working, the QB is running for his life - ADJUST and try more plays with shorter patterns, that don't take as long to develop!

    Screens, quick slants, short crossing patterns, wheel routes, disguised picks, flanker fain block then drag out in the flat after WR cuts inside, RB / TE briefly block then drift into any area purposely vacated, etc.

    Maybe I missed it but I don't recall the O trying any bootleg plays - I think Sam could make those work.

    Just my .02 observations.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  7. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Beck's issues are not the same as Shawn Watson's (i.e. forcing an offense that doesn't fit personnel). However, Beck has the same problem as Greg Davis had. Good to Very Good grasp of the game and how to exploit perceived defensive weaknesses. However falls short on execution; making in game adjustments; and at times writes off part of the offense.

    The Gameday guys saw Beck almost beating ou with a one dimensional offense.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  8. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    I know this sounds stupid, but I was watching a retrospective of the SMU Mustangs 2009 season when they went 8-5 and won the Hawaii Bowl against Kaepernick and Nevada. They interviewed the relevant staff like June Jones and other assistants about their success, and literally all of their offense was predicated on their WRs ability to communicate with each other and the QB (who was either the awful Bo Levi Mitchell or the equally awful Kyle Padron in the bowl game). They had no run game to speak of and "borrowed" a RB from Miami who never went to class and was kicked out immediately after the season while Zach Line languished on the bench.

    But looking at that WR group: jeez. Most were the 2-or-3-star variety, like Cole Beasley, but those guys outperformed expectations every week by going through tons of scramble drills and pick routes and those everlovin' deep balls.
     
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  9. Driver 8

    Driver 8 Amor Fati

    Are you saying we forget the head fake and go for the tricky torso juke?
     
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  10. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan SEC here we come!!

    Exactly, that's what the Horns WR's should be doing! What Colt was doing with Shipley, Quan, others.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  11. Detective Shilala

    Detective Shilala 2,500+ Posts

    The WRs should hold their left arm out straight to indicate a left turn, and then turn right. Or hold their left arm out with a 90 degree bend at the elbow to indicate a right turn, and then turn left.

    Just giving you a hard time Poms =) I see your point. It helps to have a repertoire of subtle moves that can make the defender take a false step. I just don't think the problem of getting open can be boiled down to juke moves like you hope it can be. If only it was that simple...
    Its about a lot of things but I think Horns11 post about having a near telepathic connection with your QB about timing and placement that can only be gained by hours and hours of practice is the most important thing.

    Great link from ChinStrap too. I am going to have my son read that.
     
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  12. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    That was a great route by Duvernay, and proves that he's more than just a speed guy. Most of the time I don't think we had time to call double-moves like that though.

    That said, somebody on the radio yesterday was saying that at halftime an NFL scout said to him "Did Texas not watch any Baylor or Iowa State film? Why are they not picking on Jordan Thomas?"
     
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  13. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan SEC here we come!!

    Another UT buddy that follows ou closely told me the same thing last week - that the Horns needed to go after Thomas.... he is the weakest link in their secondary. Did they, evidently not.
     
  14. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Herman talked a little about that basic idea last week if I recall - not specific to this, but about how people weren't throwing at Holton Hill and what that meant. His response to the question was he didn't really see a lot of instances where his staff or other staffs went into a game or series with the idea of throwing specifically at a receiver.

    In a sense that makes sense because you're trying to set up plays based on what the defense is doing, and depending on what they're running, isolating on a specific guy may not give you the best option in a given set, or whatever. Basically though, he said "we don't target specific defenders."

    Now... whether that's true or not is another story. But at least nominally, he doesn't speak as if he thinks that's a workable strategy.
     
  15. LAGA4

    LAGA4 500+ Posts

    I agree our receivers could help by coming back to the QB when he runs.

    As good as Sam is, he is still a true Freshman. The more experience he gets the quicker he can get rid of the ball and throw the receiver open.
     
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  16. Walking Boss

    Walking Boss 2,500+ Posts

    I would love to see these passes in the flat or screens to an explosive back like Carter. As has been said before the line cannot give either qb the time to consistently throw down field but it appeared we kept trying anyway instead of quick slants, drag routes and stop routes. Those short routes seemed to work most of the time.
     
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  17. Pomspoms

    Pomspoms 5,000+ Posts

    Evidently we need that! And/or spin moves with a flip.
     
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  18. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    Mayfield was 24-44 with 237 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT against us as a true freshman. He's torn us a new one as a 9th-year Jr/Sr. Sam will get his chances against OU.
     
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  19. slowrider

    slowrider 250+ Posts

    The receivers were covered most of the day because OU kept their safeties back to cover their corners, primarily Thomas. Mike prefers to play man and bring his safeties down for run support but after Baylor and then ISU burned them he went to an even front against UT to support the run and allow for over the top coverage by the safeties. This is why the backs were so open for screens. The safeties were run off by WR routes and the young LB's were getting caught in the wash. This also was effective against OU last year when the UT staff was at Houston.

    Mike will continue to throw out different looks all year but it is obvious that the corners need help, especially against big receivers. Most of the Sooner fans believe that he is coaching for his job this year. However, Ruffin will not be the DC if Mike leaves. He is not an X/O genius but is very good as a position coach and building relationships. Riley did him a solid by bringing him in as Assistant HC but will leave him in that role. He like all of the coaches contribute to the game plan but Mike is still calling the defense.
     
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  20. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Ruffin was a lot better of a DC at Tech, at least, than anybody else Leach could find.
     
  21. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I'll take Ruffin as our DC any day and twice on Sunday. Leon Fuller ain't coming back. Lake Travis ain't Jupiter, Florida, so Lantz ain't coming, that leaves Dick Tomey, who bailed out Mack Brown once before.
     
  22. slowrider

    slowrider 250+ Posts

    Over Todd Orlando?? Hmmm...
     
  23. AC

    AC 2,500+ Posts

    Todd Orlando is a good DC, he will be a HC in a few years. Mark my words.
     
  24. TEXnSEATTLE

    TEXnSEATTLE 1,000+ Posts

    I watched REPEATEDLY where the receivers ran their route and then stood there looking back for the ball...once, in front of the o.u. bench, both of the were just standing there while SAM was running for his life....WTF!!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    One thing we have to consider regarding last Saturday (or even going back to the USC game when Heard ran into Connor Williams' leg and ruined our OL for the year) is that this completely changes with a better OL. And I don't mean like swapping out one guy for Williams. Vahe and Shack (to a lesser extent) are the guys who should be starting at Texas. And that's even pushing the definition of "starting" to include Shack, considering he probably wouldn't be starting if we already had someone here who could snap the ball before he showed up.

    There is nearly nothing to be impressed about with Okafor, Cuney, Kerstetter, etc. And that's not because I don't think they improve in any way before they leave here. They're literally just bodies. If you were watching a Division II or III or NAIA game, and most of our OL was out there on the field playing in front of 3,000 fans, it would basically be "meh that's about right." Injuries and lack of depth have annihilated our ability to create a pocket or give ANY QB the ability to throw accurately. Our patchwork OL is the only reason we're not lighting it up. If we had Rodriguez, Hudson, and Urquidez available, we could spell the guys who were nonperforming. If Connor Williams was healthy, and Shane Buechele isn't sacked on 1st and 10 from the OU 31 because Okafor isn't out there, I still think we keep Shane in there and keep moving the ball for an eventual score.

    Sam has had no options except his spin-and-roll-out maneuver for a lot of his passing downs here at Texas. This, in turn, leads the WRs to think "I know this is supposed to be a pass play, but if I don't turn and look back, I could miss an important block if Sam gets to the 2nd level." I actually thought the WRs did a decent job of helping him out when they got the chance, like on Sam's TD run. So when Sam DOES have an opportunity to pass, the WRs are bent out of shape because they're worried he might run, and there goes all continuity.
     
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  26. Hpslugga

    Hpslugga 2,500+ Posts

    No, I do not miss that any more than I miss trying to read in braille. Seriously, that's what the huddle is: a tool for deaf football players. John Heisman didn't give 2 shits about it and Fielding Yost thought it was an incredible waste of time. This idea that going without a huddle is a new thing is just faux history.
     
  27. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I don't miss huddles, but why not have them if you take 20-25 seconds to snap the ball. Any resemblance to a hurry up offense and what we run is purely coincidental.

    Then there is the little issue of waiting for OU to line up on defense before snapping the ball. On one play, OU had 14 men on the field, all looking at the sideline while our offense is lined up. It was like, "Coach Riley, let us know when we can snap the ball".
     
  28. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Yes, I would take Ruffin over Orlando, but more importantly, Todd Orlando's name should never be considered in any conversation including Fuller, Lantz, and Tomey.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    An issue for me is with 11:31 left on the clock in the 4th quarter TH goes for it on 4th and 8 from the OU 27 yard line; instead of attempting a field goal.

    I get that our kicker has been inconsistent. I would say he is now 50/50 from 45 yards and in. He was one for one Saturday. I would say we have a 1 in 4 shot of making 4th and 8 against ou, at best.

    Had we made a field goal then our next to last drive looks a lot different, less harried, less frantic. all we need is a field goal to win.

    I know I will be hammered because our kicker has had a rough start, but going for it on 4th and 8 early in the fourth from the 27 makes no sense. Odds are better kicking it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
  30. caryhorn

    caryhorn 5,000+ Posts

    I say lets give Todd a couple of years to see what he can do with his and TH"s recruits at UT. Also after he's had a full year at least to teach his system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017

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