I agree we should have kicked...a punt. We had hurt Mayfield. Pin him down deep in our territory with our crowd. We had forced 3 consecutive punts prior to that 4th and 8.
I think it was mentioned above the ou schemed to protect Thomas. In that case it is up to Beck to make an adjustment in our receiver positioning to isolate Thomas, and run plays that make him uncomfortable in coverage, i.e,. find the weakness in the defense.
I don't think in the 60+ years I've been watching football I've ever seen a punt from your opponent's 27 yard line. Would have been interesting to hear what the announcers and Long Horn post game guys would have said about that.
I've seen pooch punts to pin a team. We don't have many 9 yard plays we can count on and TH said it was too strong of a wind to kick into. Should have tried to pin them down inside the 10. And those announcers were practically the OU broadcasting network. Love fest for for OU all day.
I think the issue here is the running game Against K-State, our RBs had 59 yards on 20 carries. Against ou, they had 17 yards on 14 carries This allows for man coverage which is why our WRs are never open. They have man defenders draped all over them. I was hoping Sam as a running threat would force defenses into more zone which would allow for more open WRs. But hasnt happened
I've seen many pooch punts, but never from inside the opponents 30 yard line. But like I said, I've only been playing and watching football for over 60 years.
Joe, yes running and winning go hand in hand. However, complete a couple of quick outs and intermediate passes over the middle and the back 7 will at least hesitate before charging forward. A well thought out running game plan will take full advantage of that hesitation. Despite Herman's math skills, all you need is 3.5 yards per carry. Herman says his offense is run oriented, but the proof on the filed is that it is pass oriented since effectively against USC and ou there was no run game plan. One would have thought that between Herman and Beck they could come up with an answer to 8 in the box. OSU will probably put 9 in the box at times, and it would not surprise me that if TCU also doesn't put 9 in the box a couple of times against Sam (not a quick read QB) and the ineffective Texas receivers.
You can bet Patterson will defend us as well or better than any team we'll play. He is a great defensive coach.
I thought we had the screen available against ou, but dropped it. We ran it play #1 and it went for a nice gain and 1st down. Could have gone for alot more if Porter did not make the wrong cut. It was a smart play call at the right time. But then we did not run it again until once in the 2nd half (thats all I rmbr at least) Warren is a good receiver. I think he could be a weapon on screens, esp against an aggressive rush like ou. I dont have an explanation for it.
I'm not saying what they should or should not have done. I'm saying we have no reliable 9 yard play and kicking a 44 yard FG into the wind is apparently out of the picture. So, in hindsight, I would like to have seen us pin ou down deeper in their side of the field. Agree to disagree. I usually agree with what you post. Maybe the problem was a 2 yard run by Warren followed by 3 incomplete passes. Maybe a runs on 2nd and 3rd down would make 4th down more manageable.
I guess I see the WR problems differently than others: 1) They do not come back to the QB when he is in trouble 2) They do not seek to open spot in the zone 3) There seems to be ZERO communication between the WRs and the QB 4) I'm not sure the WRs can read the defense 5) I am sure Sam cannot read the defense, although I doubt he will see another defense all year disguising their coverage as well as OU (Again, I insist that is Ruffin, not Mike Stoops) All successful "chuck n duck" offenses have had great communication between QB & WRs, and all the above have been taught to read the coverages. That inability to read cost us the Alabama game and, in my opinion, ruined a potentially great QB. Saturday, there were clear holes in the OU secondary created by mismatches. Most of these would have been deep throws, which should have been rapid releases before the DL could get to Sam. These mismatches occurred 5-6 times, a couple on Johnson. Not once did we exploit them. The Sam that played for Todd Dodge would have made that read. Again, I question if the WRs aren't taught those reads. Has Sam forgotten all Todd taught him? Is Sam not allowed to audible or communicate with his WRs? Any one of these is troublesome; more than one is just piss poor coaching. The QB is intelligent & talented. The WRs are talented. Coach them up and turn them loose.
1) Check 2) No evidence they even know what to look for 3) Check 4) Only Jaxson Shipley has shown that ability in the past 3 1/2 seasons 5) Check. If Sam spends as much of his time in the film room as the coaching staff says he does, what is he watching? If the ou DB's were protecting Thomas there was a hole on every pass play. Any issue with the reads should have been corrected at half time. The offense was a non-factor the first half, but recovered some what in the second half until Texas went ahead, and ou started playing offense again.
Sorry punting or pooching is no good. I would immediately be calling for Herman's head. Go for the field goal. I think Herman is an amateur game day coach. High school coaches making 30-40 thousand dollars a year can do better. Sorry for the negativity but that's what I believe.....oh, was the wind really blowing that hard?
A slightly better pass to Duvernay and that was a TD Which might have meant victory as well If so, would that change the discussion here at all?
He doesn't like field goals and he said it was into a strong wind. I saw the ball get blown off the tee on at least 2 kickoffs. If he isn't going to kick and we can't rely on getting 9 yards on 4th down, y'all can flame me all you want. In this game, maximize field position in this case and hope we rattle him and their offense like we had done when we hurt Mayfield.
Overall, 4th and 8 away from the goal line is about a 33% chance, while a kick from 44 yards is about a 55% chance. But this is only a pretty general guideline which doesn't take into account wind or hashmarks, the skill of the particular kicker, the skill of the particular offense and defense, etc. And to make it more complicated, while a made FG is simple automatic 3 points, the effects of the other outcomes are less certain. Making the 4th down could lead to a TD, or to another FG but with better odds, or to another 4th down try later in the drive, or to a pick 6, or to a fumble at the 1 that leads to a safety.... Overall, the FG was probably the better option but I'm not certain of that and it was a closer decision than most people are thinking. Especially since we only apply hindsight to the "risky" choice. If you go for it on 4th down everyone calculates what you would have had if only if you had made the FG. If you make the FG it's rare for anyone to calculate what you could have achieved by going for it. 28-27 type scores are fairly common but I almost never hear "if they had gone for it instead of kicking those 2 FGs, they only had to get 1 out of 2 as TDs and then they are going to OT instead of losing".
So if we punt, pooch the ball and we get lucky and its downed inside the 10. And we stop them again and ou punts it, apparently with the wind, and they kick it to our 40. then we have to march it down again. What's to say we get a td? What if we turn it over. What if they stop us and we have to punt from our side of the field into that strong wind he says was there? What if what if what if. What if we get down to their 25 or 20, and its 4th and 7 or 8 again. Do we pooch it from the 25 or 20? Do we again go against the odds on 4th and long? Or do we finally kick the FG? By then time is short and our choices are narrowing. Had we kicked it the first time then the second field goal puts us ahead. I say a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. We are in scoring range. Play the odds and try to get three points when you have the chance. It makes the rest of the game totally different. I think Herman has reduced our chances of winning two big games by eschewing the field goal. He is the only coach in the country at an elite program that is coaching like that in critical situations. It has cost him each time. Just saying I think he needs to go with the odds.
@caryhorn, we actually agree on this. I am not saying we SHOULD have punted instead of trying the field goal. Only offering alternatives to basically handing ou the ball at the 27 vs maybe 5 or 10 when we had not shown any propensity to gain 9 yards.
That surprises me. My Sooners had a lot more success against Ruffin's TTU defense than they have had against Orlando at Houston last year or you guys last week. Plus I can guarantee that at Ruffin's age Orlando has more energy on the recruiting trail.
I’m definitely not going to fight you on that one. Most of these full time no-huddle offenses operate at 3-4 tempos and they’re clearly defined: Daytona/NASCAR: this is when they’re basically just operating without a huddle and when the coaches are signaling each individual play from the line. Also when a play ends (unless it’s an incomplete pass), the ball carrier will just drop the ball where ever he is. This causes a slight delay between the ending of the play to the beginning of the next one because a referee has to go pick up the ball and throw it to the official that spots it. The ball is snapped typically with less than 10 ticks left on the play clock. Indy: this is like nascar except the ball carrier at the end of the play hands it to a referee, thereby shortening the time between snaps. The coaches have also discussed the next play before the players got to the line where as in nascar, they’re literally telling the signalers at the time. The ball is typically snapped when 10-12 seconds have gone off the play clock. Jet: this is where those wrist bands with the plays on them come in. All signals from the sidelines are dummy signals and there’s a guy calling out numbers and colors (yellow 2 or something like that). The ball carriers not only hand the ball to the ref but they try locating the spotter so as to speed it up even more. There’s ample time left on the play clock when the ball is snapped. Nitro: two wrist plays are called at a time, ball carriers rush to find the spotter to give him the ball, and it’s snapped literally when the ball is put in play. Here’s the deal: when it comes to getting to the line, you need to threaten that Nitro **** (or at least Jet) every time and you need to have built in checks whenever the defense is dragging ***. There was a play where OU was dragging *** and we were in a trips formation away from their sideline (meaning there was green in front). When that happens, they need to be able to check into a quick WR screen or something to punish them for disrespecting the tempo.
