Why are we still in Afghanistan?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Musburger1, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

  2. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Looks like we have to increase our forces to improve results. Maybe another surge.

    Need to keep our worldwide monopoly.
     
  3. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    "You realize that your political leadership launched a military invasion of our country 17 years ago. This invasion was not only contrary to the legal and national norms of our own sovereign country but also a violation of all international rules and regulations."

    I think one can reasonably argue that we shouldn't be in Afghanistan anymore, but this comment pretty much blew this guy's credibility.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    The letter covers a lot of ground. The premise the author makes that the invasion was illegal (I would think the invasion was legal if the Taliban helped sponsor or had knowledge of the attack; if not, then the invasion would be illegal) doesn't invalidate his major points.
    1. There are more terror groups operating in Afghanistan than before we intervened.
    2. Billions of US tax dollars have ended up in the hands of criminals.
    3. The opium production has exploded.
    4. The government the US helped installed and backed is known as the most corrupt in the world.
    5. Most natives want the US out.
    6. The original goal - to find bin Laden and wipe out Al Queda inside Afghanistan - is history. What is the current goal.
    7. The cost of war, both in dollars and human toll, continues to mount

    Do you disregard this entire message because you disagree with the statement by the author that the invasion was illegal? Whether it was or not, everything enumerated above is accurate is it not?
     
  5. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Relax Mus, it’s just another branch office for the greatest tribe the world has ever witnessed.
     
  6. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Points 6 and 7 definitely resonate with me.
    Points 2, 3, and 5, I don't know about the veracity of the claims. 2 is probably true.
    Point 4 I highly doubt.
     
  7. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    There's some merit to some of his points, and some are nonsense. However, if someone begins their point with something that's obviously false and asinine, it's hard to take him seriously. It's the reason why if you start telling people that you're the newly restored Czar of Russia, people won't take you seriously even if you make a good or at least debatable point.
     
  8. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    After reading Outpost, and Where Men Find Glory(I think that’s the right title) I would prefer our soldiers never set another foot in Afghanistan. It makes me sick.
     
  9. AustinHorn24

    AustinHorn24 250+ Posts

    We have no business in Afghanistan. As soon as the Taliban was removed from leadership, we should have gotten the hell out and let the locals run the show.
     
  10. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Don't kid yourself.

    Why are we in Afghanistan, Syria, and over a hundred other countries?

    We aren't there to protect American citizens from terrorists.
    We aren't there to prevent invasion on US shores.
    We aren't there to spread democracy.
    We aren't there to protect human rights.

    Then why are we there?

    We are their to enrich the military-industrial complex.
    We are there to open markets to multi-national capitalists.
    We are there to control the flow of raw materials.
    We are there to close markets to competitors; namely China and Russia.
    We are there to protect the dollar's position as reserve currency that underpins the financial system.
     
  11. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    In other words, we are there to further our interests. As long as foolish countries attack the USA, we’ll smack them around and set up branch offices in their backyard.

    Can you imagine using the rmb or ruble as the primary currency with those crooked regimes? I can’t either.
     
  12. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Remind me again. Which foolish countries have attacked the US? Other than possibly the Saudis funding toward the 9-11 conspirators and the Israeli assault on the Liberty, I cant think of an attack. But wait; aren’t they our numero one allies?
     
  13. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    You know. The country that was run by those Muslim, Al Qaeda puss-es that we bombed out of power using B-52s. The same shi-hole that trained the hijackers, and refused to turn over Osama Bin shot in the head laden.
     
  14. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Oh, you mean the Taliban. Aren’t they currently regaining control of Afghanistan again. After more than 16 years and God knows how much money they’re about to be right back where they were before. Did we win yet?
     
  15. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    So we should let turds with corrupt ideologies, whose intentions have proven so noble by their past actions, just do as they please. Makes sense to me.
     
  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    I believe you just made the case of why we should still be in Afghanistan.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    From all accounts, the Taliban did not coordinate nor find 9-11. They did allow for Al Queda to train in Afghanistan. Do you (Deez or I-35) seriously believe the Taliban is a threat to the US homeland? Seriously?
     
  18. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    You should probably move along to your next rooskie endorsed conspiracy or anti-American drivel because you have failed miserably here.
     
  19. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    What is it you fear? The powerful Taliban navy or the Taliban Air Force.

    Help! Help! The Taliban is coming, the Taliban is coming!
     
  20. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Thin ice, Mus. Very, thin ice with this one.

    If you enable and provide refuge to those who threaten the US Homeland, then you threaten the US mainland. No remotely sensible person would seriously disagree with that.

    Let's put it this way. The US has ten times as much justification for being in Afghanistan than Russia has for being in Syria.
     
  21. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Then the mission is to remove the Taliban from power. I’d say we failed since after 15 years and having ousted them from power, the Taliban is taking back territory and Islamic
    Terrorism has spread far beyond training grounds in Afghanistan. You want more of this?

    What is it they say about insanity? Doing more of the same and expecting the results to be different?
     
  22. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    That's a criticism of how we've handled Afghanistan, not of our justification for being there.
     
  23. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Based on that logic you should quit eating because you’re just going to get hungry again
     
  24. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    The justification was to eliminate the threat within the borders which was Al Queda. After that was achieved, regime change and occupation into perpetuity followed.
    The primary objective was met. What followed was more imperial disaster, squandered billions on corruption, etc.

    Back to the original question? Why are we still there?
     
  25. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    If you believe the Taliban presents an existential threat to the sovereignty of the US, then yes, we should wage war. If you believe that premise is nonsensical, then we are wasting precious resources, tax dollars, and worsening relations with most of the world by continuing to throw money at a non-existent threat.
     
  26. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    So defending individuals and allies in the U.S. and abroad is not reason enough? It has to be an existential threat for the U.S. to be legit justification?

    Where do you think the money goes that is spent on the military? Is it wasted as if we just burned it, or does it go to suppliers and wage earners in the U.S.?

    Is a non-existent threat defined as an ideology that not only threatens us but has also taken direct action that has caused the deaths of innocent civilians and military personnel?
     
  27. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Where does the money go? Well first of all it comes from debt creation which will destroy the financial system. Where has it gone? To corrupt contractors, to Afghan criminals, and the MIC.

    The ideology of radical Islam itself is only a threat given the means to facilitate its spread to our shores. The solution to prevent that does not lie in the creation of failed states such as Libya and potentially Syria. In fact, these actions only help to facilitate the spread of Islami radicalism.
     
  28. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Thank goodness we have you to solve the problem Musberger. What is the solution?
     
  29. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Start WWIII by trying to fight China and Russia. At least that seems to be the idiotic approach.
     
  30. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    Mus probably believes that if we leave the ME then all of our problems will go away. The thought is that the US has been too interventionist in the ME and that is the sole cause of Islamic terrorists aiming violence at the US.

    I think it is too simplistic of a view, but I do agree that the US should be less interventionist and slower to exert force around the world.
     

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