The First 100 days

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by theiioftx, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Yep. That's why we shouldn't be jumping to any conclusions yet. Cancelling the meeting might have been a true breakdown in the process, or it might have been a negotiating tactic (by either side). The Reykjavik Summit fell apart too, and Reagan looked bad for a time, but then a few months later, it led to the INF Treaty. There's no way to know where this sort of thing is heading while it's happening. People should just keep quiet and wait.

    The only thing we can pretty much assume is that there are dick size comparisons going on. I have absolutely no doubt about that. Both Kim and Trump thrive on that sort of thing. lol
     
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  2. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    That's why some of the Russia freak-out looks contrived and self-serving. It wasn't that long ago that Democrats and the media were dismissing Russia as a serious threat and mocking those who disagreed, and of course, the Obama Administration significantly reduced the American defense position with respect to Russia. In fact, at one point, we didn't have a single tank in Europe. It was a very stupid thing to do. (After the annexation of Crimea, there was a slight reversal in the draw down, but by then, our weakness had already been shown and demonstrated.) A few Democrats have admitted they were wrong (Paul Begala is one.), but most have not.
     
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  3. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Why do we need tanks in Europe when we can defend our NATO allies from Nebraska?

    If Russia ever invaded a NATO country, 30 minutes later the war would be over, everyone would lose and tanks would never have mattered.

    Right now every US tank in Europe is a waste of taxpayer money.
     
  4. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    The Russia thing reminds me of the episode of The Office where they find the joint, and Michael Scott makes fun of Dwight up until the point that he realizes he may have to get drug tested, and he immediately goes into lecture mode.

    "I absolutely think that Russia is horrible, and I've always thought they were horrible, no matter what some of you claim that I may have said. We're past that. I just think that I really, really am upset about Russian collusion, and I feel like a lot of you in this room aren't as upset about it as I am."
     
  5. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    The thing that is really upsetting is that not only did Obama mock Romney but they tried to run interference for Hillary's server issues and what the record now shows:

    1) Russia annexed Crimea/Ukraine mischief.
    2) They caused big problems for us in Syria.
    3) WE WERE HACKED right?
    4) They are accusing the Russians of impacting the election.
    5) They are accusing Trump of DIRECT COLLUSION with the Russians.

    They are completely ignoring how Hillary's reckless use of the servers might have enabled hacking and how Obama's blind-spot (to be kind) about Russia was a huge miscalculation on his part. Total fail. But not a peep from the Left. It's just attack attack attack...
     
  6. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    What you said is absolutely true but when is the last time you've heard a politician of either party say "we ****** up"? The fact that Obama miscalculated Putin's desire to reinvigorate Russian global influence has no bearing on this current investigation, does it? One is a policy discussion while the Mueller investigation is criminal.

    We should be able to separate the 2. Mixing the Obama policy discussion with the Mueller investigation only creates a smokescreen for the latter. Sure, it's a useful tool for the Trump supporters but disingenuous if your goal is to discover any evidence to understand just how far Russian interference went. Only with the latter will we be able to ensure we are able to limit future interference.
     
  7. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    We'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
  8. bystander

    bystander 10,000+ Posts

    I agree that both sides play the we're inerrant game. I also agree there should be an investigation into Russian interference in our election but that all comes under national security concerns in all its forms. It's hard to separate the national security concerns of Mueller's investigation from the clear aggression to impeach Trump at all costs. Isn't Mueller an independent prosecutor? If we all agreed that what Russia did fell 100% under national security (and not DIRECT COLLUSION BY TRUMP HIMSELF) would we have appointed Mueller or would the investigation/conclusion/action be carried out by another department entirely?
     
  9. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    A few thoughts:
    1. The "Impeach Trump" is being exaggerated as much by the Right as the Left. Neither Pelosi or Schumer have called for Trump's impeachment and have publicly stated that they have directed their party to simmer down on that discussion. It's the conservative media and Trump himself openly using it as a campaign issue to gin up support in their base to show up to the polls in the midterms. This isn't to say that some fringe congresspeople (Rep Al Green) haven't talked about it but the party power brokers on the left have publicly tried to steer away from that, to their credit. Personally, to friends who mention "impeachment" my response has been that there is no way the investigation would reach that point before the next election. Focus your energy on voting him out, not impeachment, and let the investigation play out.

    2. Flashback, the only reason Mueller was appointed is because Trump fired Comey and said that the Russian interference investigation was on his mind while doing it (Lester Holmes interview). Absent that you'd still have Comey's FBI leading the investigation.

    3. Another agency? Which one? This is smack dab in the wheelhouse of the FBI. Any other agency trying to investigate Russian interference on domestic elections wouldn't make sense.
     
  10. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    If they were investigating Russia by planting an FBI operative with Trump, why didn’t they plant one in Clinton’s camp? After all, isn’t that where the Russians were operating?

    This whole fiasco goes right back to Obama, and the FBI and Democrats are scared to death,
     
  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Because The Day After and Dr. Strangelove were just movies and because nuclear weapons don't make tanks obsolete.
     
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  12. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    I don't know why they would be - dems never face any serious consequences. Sandy Berger stuffed classified docs in his shorts and only lost his security clearance for 3 years.
     
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  13. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    To be fair, would you want them back after they had been in his shorts?
     
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  14. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Unless we revert to an 1700s/1800s european system of war where everyone plays by the rules, my $ is on the nuclear weapons.

    Eisenhower was right. Conventional weapons are obsolete in a direct confrontation between two nuclear superpowers.

    If Russia actually mustered a real army, not whatever unmaintained junk they currently have, it would just end up in exchanges of nukes.

    The only real thing we need to be worried about with Russia is cyber warfare. In short, more firewalls, less tanks.

    I am still of the opinion that Russia and Putin are a grossly exaggerated threat. Romney was wrong then, and the democrats are even more wrong/irresponsible now.
     
  15. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    If you really care about why the FBI had an informant reach out to members of the Trump campaign then check out this timeline from the Washington Post. In it you can see that Page and Papadopolous were well on the radar of the FBI based on earlier meetings with either whistleblower (Mifsud) or Russians (in Page's case).
     
  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    It wouldn't be a direct confrontation between nuclear powers. It would be a shady Russian-backed operation into a place like the Baltics like we saw in Crimea, or if he felt ballsy, it would be an actual Russian invasion - not of the United States (a nuclear power) but of the weaker NATO countries. Putin wouldn't just unload the nukes unless he had no choice, and we wouldn't either, because we both know what the consequences of that would be. He'd send troops, and they'd be in tanks. NATO would have to liberate those countries, and that would require tanks. Nukes would only be deployed as a last resort.

    There's a reason why Eisenhower said what he did but didn't pull our tanks out of Europe.
     
  17. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    It’s impossible to believe anything said or lead by Comey, Clapper, McCabe, Lynch or really anyone in the Obama justice department. All of them have been caught in straight up lies and cover ups related to Clinton and the Russia investigation. They are above the law in their eyes.
     
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  18. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Speaking of lies:




     
  19. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts




    This was a prepared speech read by DJT. It's almost as if someone is trying to create an alternate reality.
     
  20. theiioftx

    theiioftx Sponsor Deputy

    What does his speech today have to do with the FBI, lead by liars and Clinton cronies, planting someone in his campaign?

    Do you think Strok and Page were unbiased? Were they lying when referring to Obama knowing everything?
     
  21. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    He's playing a game of misdirection since he can't argue with your facts.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  22. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Nah...it was a test to see if you care about lying or only when the "other" side lies. Thanks for the confirmation! Have a great weekend.
     
  23. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    You do know you look bad when you pull dishonest garbage like this, right?
     
  24. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    Dishonest? Are you saying you CARE about ALL dishonesty? So you DO care that Trump stood on stage and lied? Let me here you say it...share the outrage. Come on, you can do it! I have confidence in you.
     
  25. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    Dude, feed your BS to someone else.
     
  26. Seattle Husker

    Seattle Husker 10,000+ Posts

    BS? Like claiming you could and would be critical of your own side then when given the opportunity not doing so? Yep, that must be the BS you're referring to.
     
  27. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Putin just does not strike me as a Hitler, Stalin or even a Saddam Hussein. He has no manifesto and he does not seem to have mutch of an agenda beyond keeping himself in power/making money/appearing strong. I do not see any invasions of any NATO countries happening, shady or not. Putin is far to capitalistic too take such a risk.

    Now cyber attacks, interference and sabotage to generally weaken his neighbors and other world powers? Yes. Direct or indirect intervention in non NATO countries that Russia has a strategic interest in? Yes (and we do the same damn thing).

    Russia may not be a true democracy, but they are more democratic now than they ever have been. The other thing holding back any potential conflict is that the Russian people are no more interested in such a conflict than the American people. The people have moved on from the Cold War. It is time the leaders of Russia, Europe and the US do the same (although I think the leaders and even the people of former eastern bloc european countries will be the biggest deterrent to friendship among the US, EU and Russia. They are both afraid of Russia and want revenge). We need to move on to the real threats: north korea and radical islam.
     
  28. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Yep. That load of crap from Seattle finally got him ignored.
     
  29. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    You keep playing a game of misdirection.
     
  30. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    I'm about to join you. I've had enough of the ********.
     

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