Watson’s Promise

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Matagorda, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Matagorda

    Matagorda 25+ Posts

    At this point, it seems clear to me Herman is honoring a promise to Watson that he would start and get a certain number of carries. Recruiting wise, makes a bunch of sense. When we go after other JuCos/ grad transfers we can always point them in his direction and he will tell them how coach kept his word.

    That said, its tough seeing our most talented back share carries with him. So far it hasnt cost us yet, but I cant help but think this decision of guaranteeing playing time for Watson over Ingram will play a crucial role in our next loss.

    What do you think?
     
  2. FWHORN

    FWHORN 10,000+ Posts

    The far more likely explanation is that Ingram still has lingering shoulder issues and the coaches are limiting his carries so that he can play full year and not have to miss games because of over use, I doubt there was any kind of "deal" with Watson for guaranteed playing time. In fact Herman was asked about Ingram in his post game presser after Baylor and whether Keontay was physically healthy enough to do 25 carries a game (he did 19 for Baylor) and Herman said that they are still bringing him along and that the shoulder has been a concern. Don't ascribe to conspiracy or some side deal what looks very much like a pitch count for injured pitcher in baseball while they get fully healthy.
     
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  3. Phil Elliott

    Phil Elliott 2,500+ Posts

    Watson is very good at avoiding negative yardage. Even when there is nothing there, he can usually get 1-2 yards.
     
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  4. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    You have to have 2 backs minimum for a change of pace. Watson's advantage is he generally doesn't run backward to try to outrun LB's near the LOS. Ingram is still hurt and a Freshman. He is doing fine, but in the next two years before he turns pro he will be the "guy" as long as he stays healthy (as long as Earl/Ricky II doesn't magically fall into Texas' lap).
     
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  5. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Precisely.
     
  6. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    Plus, Watson is better than Carter and has about the same skill set. It's already a foregone conclusion that Porter is never going to get any playing time ever again. Young obviously has "issues" that the coaches are trying to get him to fix before he can earn more snaps.
     
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  7. Dionysus

    Dionysus Idoit Admin

    What happened with Toneil Carter? I thought he looked really good early on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    Doghouse. I think Watson was brought in as a "put up or shut up" lesson for Toneil. Not sure who masterminded it, but Tom/Tim/Stan probably pulled him aside and said "This guy is what we want you to be. Watch him for a year. If you think you can handle it, stick around and become the next Watson. Otherwise, adios."
     
  9. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    Coach said in his presser that...
    Ingram is pretty healthy. He didn't like giving numbers, but about 90% healthy. That has some effect on carries. The biggest reason is his physical development. He's young and his body is still young. We'll see the biggest difference in carries from this year to next year when his body has a chance to develop.
     
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  10. easy

    easy 2,500+ Posts

    I just wanna see Kirk Johnson get some spin, all that kid has been through would love to see him get some touches
     
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  11. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Saw Porter on sidelines in jersey and shorts Sat.
     
  12. Win

    Win 100+ Posts

    After the 4th game, I think Herman mention in a press conference said Porter talked to him about redshirting this season. So he said he would work with him.

    Watson is a better runner than what we have now and is a good receiver out of the backfield. I don't mind him starting over Ingram as long as Keontay gets more touches. It must be a health issue to limit his touches unlike last year with the rotation we saw. Its hard to believe we only have a 2 back rotation now. I would like to see other RB's get in the mix but it maybe they aren't ready to play for one reason or another.
     
  13. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    If you believe (and I do) that running backs basically have a "pitch count" on their careers, then I think Herman's process is probably a good one, particularly in dealing with a freshman who's still maturing physically. Ingram is likely to be the focal point of next year's running game, and possibly even of the offense in a year where we have a legitimate shot to be a playoff team. If you can avoid pounding him for a season, that may not be a bad thing.
     
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  14. NRHorn

    NRHorn 2,500+ Posts

    You asked what I think, so because you asked.....
    I think you are either high on peyote or my wife... who still can’t understand why a QB throwing the ball out of bounds is a good thing. I simply reply “I don’t know” when asked the age old question of ‘why Sam did that.’
    Herman is not playing Watson because of some promise kept.
    Thanks, and that’s all.
     
  15. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    From what I've read he's in Herman's doghouse for his fumbling problems.
     
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  16. Matagorda

    Matagorda 25+ Posts

    Watson touched the ball 8 times and a whole quarter before Ingram. The coaches think that was best? Most of you think that was best? With our number 1 QB out?

    My mind is boggled.
     
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  17. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    They only had two drives in the first quarter. He had more carries. Your mind can now deboggle itself.
     
  18. CraigHorn

    CraigHorn 500+ Posts

    Deboggle
     
  19. #2is#1

    #2is#1 1,000+ Posts

    Absolutely agree 100% they have to be on a touch count. The stats show for production, fumbles, and longevity. Off the top of your head name a recent big time freshman RB that had several touches early and often that didn’t miss time.
    I think of AD, Fournette, the position doesn’t bode well for 18 year old young men to take a beating from these bigger faster defensive players.
     
  20. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    There's also a type of conditional promise, such as, "If you learn the offense, don't screw up, have a great attitude, and play like you did at Cal, I will start the season with you. If another guy (by whom I mean Keontay Ingram, the top RB coming out of the State of Texas this year) beats you out so obviously that I have no choice to start him, then so be it, but no matter what, I will give you a full year of game film to create, and will not bench you just to give a young guy more playing time if you are even within argument's sake of being equivalent."

    Right now, Ingram looks better (although I can't evaluate coach-y things like blocking, routes, options, etc.), but not like Herschel Walker's freshman year or whatever, so I think it's all worked out nicely, with some deference to the "pitch count" concept stated above, as well, possibly, as perhaps some parts of the playbook that Herman isn't ready to run with a true freshman for whatever reason.
     
  21. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 2,500+ Posts

    A promise is akin to a certain word that Herman is trying to get out of his program. Venture to guess what that word is?
     
  22. VYFan

    VYFan 2,500+ Posts

    Hydration?
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  23. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    What is the problem with Watson? Both Ingram and Watson are good. Both make plays. Both should share time. Ingram is a true freshman who has been a little banged up. Why run him to death when you have another good, veteran running back you are only going to have for one season? Ricky Williams did not get all the touches his first two years. It was OKAY to give Priest Holmes the ball. Watson may not be Priest Holmes, but he is good and it is OKAY to give him the ball. Watson is also a great receiving threat (see OU).

    Ingram is clearly the better running back and the future, but there is no need to run him to death now as a freshman when he is a bit banged up and you have another good running back. For once, we have options! I also like that the coaches let Watson start, wear down the defense a little and take those initial harder hits while the defense is fresh. After getting a little worn out, the defense then has to contend with the a fresh, better running back.

    I have been happy with the running back management this year. I think this falls under the @IvanDiabloHorn post on the other thread about “you know Texas is back when people are complaining about winning.”
     
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  24. moondog_LFZ

    moondog_LFZ 5,000+ Posts

    I, for one, am happy to see more of a featured back.
    Watson has been able able to find a rhythm and while not a great back, he is a good one.
    I never liked seeing multiple backs run in and out of the game and believe this contributed to Warren's lack of production.
    Ingram needs an off season in the weight room but can definitely make an impact now.
    You have to remember the season is more physical and grueling then the last high school season Ingram played.

    Whether it's by plan or necessity, I commend Herman on featuring players from QB to WRs to RB and O-line.
    Last year seemed like a cluster f**k of players running in and out of the game every play or series.
    We now seem to have actual starters that play every down.
    I think that is a big reason for the success of the team.
     
  25. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 2,500+ Posts

    See that would make him a selfish human being. :lol:

    The word I'm looking for is Entitlement.

    If Herman made Watson a promise of anything other than the open chance to compete, it would give Watson an entitlement he didn't earn. This is the biggest issue in the past with the program.

    Keep the entitlement out of the program and you will develop a culture of hard work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. Austin_Bill

    Austin_Bill 2,500+ Posts

    Anyone notice that D'onta Foreman's father hasn't had much to say about Tom Herman and the offense this year. Usually he is right there talking smack about the coaches. I think Mr Foreman had a big case of Entitlement for his sons. That's too bad because I think Armani earned everything he got and worked really hard to be on the field.
     
  27. Matagorda

    Matagorda 25+ Posts

    My point, originally, was to discuss the nature of recruiting graduate transfers/juco guys. Promises to play might or start might be necessary to get them because clearly Ingram is better, yet Watson starts. Coaches know this and give Ingram the most carries.

    Generally the starter is the featured back, the best back, and the back who gets the first and most carries. Watson starts and gets the first carries. Thats about it. Hes not the best and not even close.

    Pitch counts seem to make sense, Ill grant that and hell yes Im going to complain while we win. Its my duty as a message board Longhorn fan.
     
  28. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I am not sure Herman, Watson or Ingram care who has the title “starter”.... being the “starter” does not mean as much as it used to at a lost of positions, including running back. I think using Watson to initially wear down the defense when the defense is the least fatigued makes the most sense, is working and is why we are doing it this way.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  29. Bayerithe

    Bayerithe 1,000+ Posts

    You have to rotate backs. gone are the days where one guy is the every down, every play back.

    What most people forget, are a running back's duties don't just stop at running the ball. They have to be able to read a defense and see where a blitz is coming from, be able to throw blocks, know where to find space where the QB has to check down to you, etc. Ingram is young and probably still learning those things.
     
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  30. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    Maybe there's a promise. Given the realities/factors. I want more Ingram, but understand the workloads.
     

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