Venezuelan Update (Florida Maquis)

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Musburger1, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Professor Steve Ellner teaches at a University in Venezuela. Three factors for economic problems.
    1. Low oil price
    2. US sanctions
    3. Maduro policies

     
  2. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    A look into the future of Venezuela

     
  3. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    You forgot to address the suffering citizens.
     
  4. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    The suffering citizens speak. Hear them.

     
  5. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    It states "the real news" so, without watching, I assume the lady in blue knows everyone's situation in Venezuela and she is a totally unbiased, all knowing source for news, facts, and conditions. Would that be correct?
     
  6. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

  8. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    While the article makes a case against the bureaucratic fails of socialism, it fails to explore the effect of economic warfare (sanctions) which deprive the State of capital needed to provide social services. So even if the argument against socialism has validity in general, the economical decline hasn’t happened in a vacuum. It’s been accelerated by the US orchestrated economic warfare.
     
  9. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  10. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    This is worth your time (well, not Iatrogenic)). Please view.

     
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  11. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Man on the street

     
  12. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Below are the main nationalizations under Chavez:
    OIL
    * In 2007, Chavez’s government took a majority stake in four oil projects in the vast Orinoco heavy crude belt worth an estimated $30 billion in total.
    Exxon Mobil Corp and ConocoPhillips quit the country as a result and filed arbitration claims. Late last year, an arbitration panel ordered Venezuela to pay Exxon $908 million, though a larger case is still ongoing.
    France’s Total SA and Norway’s StatoilHydro ASA received about $1 billion in compensation after reducing their holdings. Britain’s BP Plc and America’s Chevron Corp remained as minority partners.
    * In 2008, Chavez’s administration implemented a windfall tax of 50 percent for prices over $70 per barrel, and 60 percent on oil over $100. Oil reached $147 that year, but soon slumped.
    * In 2009, Chavez seized a major gas injection project belonging to Williams Cos Inc and a range of assets from local service companies. This year, the energy minister said the government would pay $420 million to Williams and one of its U.S. partners, Exterran Holdings, for the takeover.
    * In June 2010, the government seized 11 oil rigs from Oklahoma-based Helmerich & Payne Inc.
    AGRICULTURE
    * In 2009, Chavez nationalized a rice mill operated by a local unit of U.S. food giant Cargill Inc.
    * In October 2010, Venezuela nationalized Fertinitro, one of the world’s biggest producers of nitrogen fertilizer, as well as Agroislena, a major local agricultural supply company. It also said it would take control of nearly 200,000 hectares (494,000 acres) of land owned by British meat company Vestey Foods.
    * Vestey had already filed for arbitration over the earlier takeover of a ranch. Chavez said the latest deal with Vestey was a “friendly agreement.”
    * In 2005, Chavez began implementing a 2001 law letting the state expropriate unproductive farms or seize land without proper titles. He has redistributed millions of acres deemed idle to boost food production and ease rural poverty.
    * Chavez’s government has repeatedly threatened to seize Empresas Polar, Venezuela’s biggest employer and largest brewer and food processor.
    FINANCE
    * In June 2010, Venezuela took over the mid-sized bank Banco Federal, citing liquidity problems and risk of fraud. The bank was closely linked to anti-government TV station Globovision.
    * In 2009, Chavez paid $1 billion for Banco de Venezuela, a division of Spanish bank Grupo Santander.
    * The government has closed a dozen small banks since November 2009 for what it said were operational irregularities. Some were reopened as state-run firms. Brokerages have also been closed and some employees jailed. Chavez has vowed to nationalize any bank that fails to meet government lending guidelines or is in financial trouble.
    INDUSTRY
    * In October 2010, Chavez ordered the takeover of the local operations of Owens Illinois Inc, which describes itself as the world’s largest glass container maker.
    * Chavez in April 2008 announced the government takeover of the cement sector, targeting Switzerland’s Holcim Ltd, France’s Lafarge SA, and Mexico’s Cemex SAB de CV.
    GOLD
    * Chavez has considered bringing mining more firmly into state hands, and in 2009 the mining ministry seized Gold Reserve Inc’s Brisas project, which sits on one of Latin America’s largest gold veins. Gold Reserve immediately filed for arbitration with ICSID.
    Spain warship stands-off with UK navy in Gibraltar
    * In August 2011, Chavez said he was nationalizing the gold industry. Toronto-listed Rusoro Mining Ltd, owned by Russia’s Agapov family, was the only large gold miner operating in Venezuela, and this year it filed for arbitration.
    STEEL
    * The government paid $2 billion in 2009 for Argentine-led Ternium SA’s stake in Venezuela’s largest steel mill.
    TELECOMMUNICATIONS
    * In 2007, the nation’s largest telecommunications company CANTV was nationalized after the government bought out the U.S.-based Verizon Communications Inc’s 28.5 percent stake for $572 million. Analysts said Verizon received fair compensations for its assets.
    POWER
    * In 2007, Venezuela expropriated the assets of U.S.-based AES Corp in Electricidad de Caracas, the nation’s largest private power producer. The government paid AES $740 million for its 82 percent stake in the company. Analysts described the deal as fair for AES.
    TRANSPORT
    * In September 2011, the government nationalized a local ferry company, Conferry, which operates from the mainland to the resort island of Margarita. Conferry is owned by a wealthy family and began operating in 1959.
    TOURISM
    * In October 2011, Chavez said his government would seize private homes on the Los Roques archipelago in the Caribbean and use them for state-run tourism. The islands are among the nation’s favorite and most expensive tourist spots, with pristine white beaches and coral reefs that teem with sea life.
     
  13. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Perhaps if we had followed Chávez model of closing down corrupt banks long before 2008 and prosecuted law breakers, the 2008-2009 collapse might have been avoided.
    But instead, we just let the criminals keep the money and shoved the losses down the throat of taxpayers.
     
  14. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Yeah, the Chavez model is one to hold up as a shining example. Funny how other countries, even socialist ones, aren't colossal failures. I wonder what makes them so unique? Oh yeah, now I remember; no property rights, rampant corruption, an unchecked dictator, idiotic economic programs, etc. Basically, following the Russian and Cuban model of how to sh-t in your own hat when it comes to running a country.
     
  15. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    Don't forget creating money out of thin air thinking it won't have any effect on prices.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Have you ever watched a documentary about the evil, brutal, murderous dictator Hugo Chavez? Here's your opportunity.

     
  17. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    I think I’ll pass.
     
  18. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    I think if the US discussed negotiated with China and Russia about Venezuela, I think things could conclude peaceably. Apparently China and Russia currently support Maduro because Venezuela owes them money for various services they have provided over the last 10-20 years. If Guaido comes into power there is a large chance that money goes unpaid. Eliminate that problem and I think it is possible to let the people of Venezuela figure the rest out on their own.
     
  19. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Wishful thinking. The establishment will have regime change. Just yesterday, Trump readied the population with propagandist lies, distortions, and threats. The US has been preparing and training foreign troops in Colombia and Brazil for some time. Guaido has been in training by the CIA for years. This isn’t some spontaneous event occurring in Venezuela. There will be extreme violence, if not preceding the coup, then certainly after the fact.
     
  20. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    There will be consequences.

     
  21. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Inconvenient truths.

     
  22. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    That's how we roll.
     
  23. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    DC coup plotters lose round 1.

     
  24. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Venezuela is just one more step on our journey to world dominance. Just sit back and enjoy the show.
     
  25. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Is this you Musberger?

     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • WTF? WTF? x 1
  26. Monahorns

    Monahorns 10,000+ Posts

    If Venezuela had their act together they wouldn't need any foreign capital. There is a thing called selling goods at a profit and reinvesting a portion back into production. It is how virtually all the Western countries industrialized.
     
  27. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    So to correct the problem, we should bomb their infrastructure, induce a regional war, and install a puppet government.... for their own good. That seems to be the theme.
     
  28. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    Mus?
    How did you possibly come up with that from Monahorn's post?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    I don’t mean not say Monahan wants that to happen. But our government does.
     
  30. Musburger1

    Musburger1 2,500+ Posts

    Check it out.

     

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