Rick Barnes and the Tennessee Basketball Uprising

Discussion in 'Men’s Basketball' started by El Torito, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. El Torito

    El Torito 1,000+ Posts

    Rick Barnes and Tennessee's basketball uprising

    "He's the head coach of the No. 1-ranked Tennessee Volunteers, but he also might as well be a Knoxville Chamber of Commerce rep as he weaves past a statue of Pat Summit, steers down Phillip Fulmer Way and rolls toward Tee Martin Drive in a super-sized SUV that hogs the streets of Tennessee's campus during the school's winter break."
     
  2. yelladawgdem

    yelladawgdem 2,500+ Posts

    The great advantage he has is the knowledge to never turn his back on Phil Fulmer. If he is going to get a knife stuck in him, it's going to be from the front and not the back.

    I attended the school's shoot-around the day before the NCAA regional last spring when Tennessee was here in Dallas. I had a Texas pull over top on and chatted with probably a dozen folks from Rocky Top. They were obviously thrilled to have Barnes and they brought a ton of people. But interestingly, everyone I spoke with said that they could see how unless he had won big, consistently, he wouldn't be a good fit in Austin.

    And that his arrival was perfectly timed. The football program is a hot mess, and the rapid decline of the women's basketball program had left the Big Orange starving. I have caught them on TV a few times this year and they are a monster team when it comes to the "fundamentals of champions" as John Wooden called it; offensive rebounds, assists, transition basketball, turnover, free throws, et al.

    As long as they don't have to play a Jesuit school in the secound round (and Jesuits are such a humorless bunch, don't let Sister Jean fool you), they look ready for a deep run in March. I wish the guy all the best.

    :bevo:
     
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  3. Horns11

    Horns11 10,000+ Posts

    Yeah I kind of want him to win it all for what he endured here towards the end of his tenure. And then give everyone a big middle finger.
     
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  4. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life Good Bye To All The Rest!

    I pooped you as a Vol fan even though I would love to see them win it all there. No one here deserves a middle finger though. It was time for him to move on from Texas and I for one was happy he was hired at Tennessee because they were a sh!t show for the prior decade or more and I felt he was the guy who could clean it up. If he were here in my opinion we'd still be in the same position and he should be thrilled that we helped motivate him to re-energize his career.
     
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  5. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    And I don't see Barnes doing that. He'd --- scratch that --- he'll probably just say: "...it's great to finally win one, not just for me but for my players, both here in Tennessee and those I've coached before. I'd like to thank those at every stop I've had along the way to get here."

    Or something like that.
     
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  6. FWHORN

    FWHORN 10,000+ Posts

    Barnes is a class act and I wish him well and nothing but success. that said, I was among those who thought it was time for him to move on, the fact that Smart has not worked out doesn't change fact that Barnes tenure at UT had run its course. He is best basketball coach Texas has ever had and the success he is now having is not evidence he could have recovered here its just evidence he needed a fresh start too. We are all jaded by the failure of Smart and the fact that the Horns have regressed to pre-Barnes Tommy P. status since Shaka took over and haven't gotten back to the glory Barnes years of the mid 2000's.
     
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  7. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    Actually, what happened with Rick Barnes was he went away from what made him successful and he started chasing one and done type players. The 2012-13 team was talented, but did not work with his system. It was basically a giant recruiting misfire.

    Barnes actually quickly recovered and started rebuilding a “Rick Barnes style” team.

    The 2013-14 team tied for third in the Big 12 with an 11-7 conference record winning 24 games overall. They won their first round tournament game. Barnes had built a team that could make the sweet 16 or better the next two seasons.

    The problem was impatient Texas fans were demanding he win big now and giving him no leeway.

    Between his 1963 national title and 1969 and 70 national titles, DKR had a dry run of three consecutive 4 loss seasons from 1965-67. DKR didnt need a fresh start. He made some mistakes, adjusted, Texas was patient and he won two more titles.

    Barnes had already adjusted and learned. Two bad things happended in 2014-15. The major issue was Isaiah Taylor got hurt and derailed the team. Even without Taylor, that team played Kentucky pretty close so the talent and team was there. However, losing Taylor really killed it. Taylor’s injury was not Rick Barnes’s fault or due to Rick needing energy or something.

    The other was Barnes picked up one and done Miles Turner hoping he would provide a Kevin Durant type boost and put us over the top. Turner, however, was not developed enough to be a year one major contributor and he was really only interested in the NBA. Unfortunately, Barnes picked up the wrong “one and done”. To the people that complain Barnes misused or did not develop Turner, that is nonsense. Rick Barnes entire career is filled with fantastic player development. Look at the recruiting rankings of his classes at Tennessee. Like many of the 2012-13 players, Turner was not a good fit. As with Garret Gilbert, I am not sure there was any way to know he would not fit. He seemed like a one and done that would fit Barnes’ style. Turner was probably the last lesson Barnes needed to learn.

    Barnes had learned and had his act together. He left Shaka Smart with a veteran team that should have EASILY made the Sweet 16. With Barnes at the helm, Ridley injury or not, I have no doubt that team makes the Sweet 16. If we leave Barnes in place one more year, that team makes the Sweet 16, Barnes rebuilds in 2016-17 and we are near or at where Tennessee is now.

    Instead, our impatient and arrogant fanbase in the dumbest move in Texas sports history forced him out. Everything Barnes learned, he applied at Tennessee and they reaped the benefits. We fired him on the cusp of what could be his best coaching years.

    Everyone has started this “he needed to get re-energized and stop being lazy” which is a bs excuse narrative that somehow is transitive from football with Mack Brown and honestly never made sense with Barnes. I think partially if football never goes downhill, Barnes may still be our coach. Part of the problem was everyone kept attributing what was going on with football to everything.

    Anyway, the only part of the “fresh start” narrative that is true is that at Tennesse, Barnes did not have a fanbase that had gone full retard on his back demanding he get to the final four now or be fired. He actually had the leeway to build for two years. He did not have to take risks on one and dones and could build a 2000s style Rick Barnes team. Anyway, Barnes benefited from a “fresh start” in that he got away from an idiotic fanbase and was able to build. If you put our dumb fanbase aside, I guarantee he would have rather stayed at Texas as he had a great team that could win and he had better recruiting. It would have been easier to rebuild in 2016-17 at Texas than take over a complete dumpster fire at Tennessee and start from scratch. However, I guess our impaitent and unwise fanbase made Tennessee the better opportunity for him.

    Anyway, if you do not want to admit getting rid of him was stupid, keep telling yourself he was tired and needed to be re-energized to justify supporting an epically bad decision.

    As for Smart, I genuinely believed he could be on par or at least close to Barnes. Before we fired Barnes, I was adamantly against his fire because I am not sure we would ever obtain as good a basketball coach again, he was our best shot at a national title and we needed to stick with him until he retired unless he just stopped making the tournament all together for three or more seasons (which never happened). After we hired Shaka, I looked closer at his results at VCU and became concerned. His final four run seemed to be a fluke. It was also evident the coaching had dropped a level with the 2015-16 team. Unfortunately, it appears I was right, and the hire after Barnes was going to be a downgrade. I remain genuinely unsure we will ever get another Barnes. I do know in the meantime it is time to try again and move away from Shaka.

    Anyway, if you do not comprehend Barnes never lost it (his second to last season he won 24 games and a tournament game, and he just suffered a key injury his last year), and he is doing at Tennessee exactly what he was doing here at the end, I am sorry, but you are misguided. Firing him was the dumbest decision in Texas history. Getting Rick Barnes after Penders may truly be the luckiest decision in Texas history.

    I’ll also note, after Strong’s 6-7 start, what we should have learned from football was letting Bill Powers and Steve Patterson hire a coach was a terrible idea and Barnes should have especially been left alone with that brain trust doing the hiring at the time. If Powers and Patterson were in charge, you should have realized whatever hire followed Barnes would be worse.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  8. yelladawgdem

    yelladawgdem 2,500+ Posts

    Htown 77, I tend to agree with most everything you said. But specifically, anyone who thought that something good was coming out of a Powers/Patterson hire needed massive doses of medication and therapy.

    I mean even Penders walked in the door, recognized what he had with BMW, filled up the drum and got us a basket away from a Final Four.

    A blind hog will find an acorn every now then. But not twice.

    :bevo:
     
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  9. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    H77
    That was a great if sad post.
     
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  10. 4th_floor

    4th_floor Dude, where's my laptop?

    T'would be justified, but Rick is too classy.
     
  11. 4th_floor

    4th_floor Dude, where's my laptop?

    I think the Horns have regressed to Kaiser Bob status.
     
  12. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Want to see a pretty spiffy looking schedule to date?

    The Vols through Wed, that one red L, a 6 point OT loss early to KU in the early season NIT, the rest a whole bunch of green Ws:

    Tennessee Volunteers Schedule - 2018-19 | ESPN

    And now the final 7 games of the regular season, away/home v. Kentucky, an away at LSU, and finishing away at Auburn (seems Rick had trouble against Bruce Pearl when HE was HC at Tennessee).

    Vols at 23-1 right now; even if "wheels come off" and say they lose both UK games and LSU and even Auburn, finishing the 7 games with a 3-4 skid, they'd still finish up regular season at 26-5.
     
  13. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Well, one wheel is off, let's see what happens next, Vols have Vandy next. Should be a W.
     
  14. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life Good Bye To All The Rest!

    I wish our wheel would fall off after our second loss in twenty five attempts. I'd like to know what that feels like.
     
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  15. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    DayGlo put one of the wheels back on; got thumped by UK @ UK by 17 few days ago, yesterday returned the favor by thumping UK @ DayGlo by 19.

    Is this Rick's year, finally?:

    Power Rankings: Tennessee routs Kentucky
     
  16. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life Good Bye To All The Rest!

    I'm guessing they make it to the sweet 16 or elite 8 with favorable seeding matchups and lose. That's about what a Barnes team like this usually achieves.
     
  17. txlandagent

    txlandagent 500+ Posts

    Tennessee Rick looking like old Texas Rick. Blowing a 20 pt half time lead to squeak by in a hard fought OT battle. The lesser Iowa team stayed in it and almost shocked the better Vols team. Oh well. Wins a win and Rick has his guys in the round of 16.
     
  18. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life Good Bye To All The Rest!

    Iowa was 23-11 coming into the game so they weren't exactly slouches and for whatever reason Schofield didn't play. Still, Tenn gave up a record 25 point lead to end up in OT. I'd say it looked like a Barnes tourney team but here he didn't often get a 25 point lead to begin with. They won so we'll see next weekend.
     
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  19. yelladawgdem

    yelladawgdem 2,500+ Posts

    Barnes named Coach of the Year by the College Basketball Writers. Henry Iba Award.
     
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  20. txlandagent

    txlandagent 500+ Posts

    Sweet 16 loss to a lower seed. The underachievement curse of Rick Barnes ressurected at day glo. But hats off to Ricky from Hickory for his accomplishments this season.
     
  21. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Yeah, it's a shame that a No. 2 seed loses to a No. 3 seed in OT.
     
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  22. txlandagent

    txlandagent 500+ Posts

    Yeah, I’d say you missed the point entirely.
     
  23. blonthang

    blonthang 2,500+ Posts

    Well, the phrase "underachievement curse" is what I was responding to and commenting that a No. 2 seed losing to a No. 3 seed IMHO isn't all that.

    If I missed the point otherwise, oh well.
     
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  24. txlandagent

    txlandagent 500+ Posts

    I guess it depends on what your individual optics are around Ricks tenure here, and why he’s no longer here, and where his current organization ended up, and whether his bosses and fan base and his players expectations were met at the conclusion of their season. I imagine it wasn’t losing in the round of 16 to a lower seeded team. He had a great season, no question. I thought the Vols had a legitimate shot at the final 4 at least.
     
  25. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    They did have a legitimate shot. So have a bunch of other teams throughout NCAA history, who didn't make it that far.

    Yes, exiting the NCAA tourney earlier than hoped was a hallmark of Barnes' teams here, at least those not led by TJ Ford. Yes, it happened again this year. But a 3 beating a 2 is a very weak example of that pattern.
     
  26. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    The last time he made it past the Sweet 16 remains our 2007-08 team (starters - Augustin, Abrams, James, Mason and Atchley). This was the season we beat Stanford (the Lopez twins) but then lost to Memphis (coached by John Calipari, and starring the probably ineligible Derrick Rose) in Houston at then-Reliant Stadium.

    And if anyone else pays attention to sports investment odds, I read some stats that show Barnes is now 1-10-1 against the spread in his last 12 NCAA Tournament Games
     
  27. txlandagent

    txlandagent 500+ Posts

    Point also missed. But OK. Maybe Joe Fans example is stronger - hopefully that helped.
     
  28. WorsterMan

    WorsterMan SEC here we come!!

    Pleased for Barnes the Vols had a good season.

    In the bracket at work I picked Tenn. to go to the Final Four.... Purdue and the Tenn collapse at the end last night just screwed up my Final Four....
     
  29. SabreHorn

    SabreHorn 10,000+ Posts

    Like him or not, Rick Barnes is the only coach to ever get us to the Final Four.

    When was the last time one of our basketball teams came from 18 down with 16 minutes left to take the lead? Sure they blew the OT, but Purdue & Auburn are the two biggest sleepers in the tournament, not to mention bettors' best friends.

    That said, having the cameras constantly showing Keady and Phat Phil was disgusting. Two of the biggest pieces of **** in college athletics history, and CBS wants to plaster them on the screen. Maybe I should invite CBS out to the ranch to film pasture patties.
     
  30. yelladawgdem

    yelladawgdem 2,500+ Posts

    Keady is still waiting for the goal tending call on Panama Myers for that game saving block in Indy.

    Miserable, bitter man. Bob Knight 2.0.

    :texasflag::hookem2:
     

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