Mueller Report Finally Released...

Probably for the same reason why liberals can’t get their collective nose out of everyone’s business.

 

Same reason why religious conservative closet homosexuals are so interested in legislating what happens in your bedroom?

 

Longest
Give us an example of conservatives legislating what happens in a bedroom.

 

I think it's a long way from legislating the bedroom (those days are over) to the gender discussions that are being presented in our public schools to very young children.

 

Amen bystander!!!

 

I was sort of joking but not really. I don't expect God to bail me out. He may have at times, it's hard to say but I wouldn't expect everyone to rely solely on prayer. The government has done me lots of good. I would be the first to admit it. But the political gamesmanship these days is sickening and I'm not expecting it to change.

I think when someone talks faith versus government they are comparing morality from a pure source to raw power that can and will be abused.

 

How so?

There's room to criticize the FBI. I don't have any problem with potential misconduct being investigated, especially in regard to the FISA warrant and reliance on the Steele dossier. However, that is a separate matter.

Ultimately, the Russian government put our country through this distraction. When they hacked the emails and WikiLeaks publicized them, it was going to lead to FBI and CIA investigations regardless of the Steele dossier. Furthermore, Trump and his people put out enough smoke that they were going to be at least part of the investigation. And of course, if that had occurred, Trump still would have ignored his counsel's advice and shot his mouth off and done stupid things and handed investigators to look at obstruction of justice. Keep in mind that 90 percent of the headaches Trump endured was due to unforced errors.

 

Deez, Certainly Hillary is an arrogant, process-abusing liar. The email thing (a story broken by the New York Times by the way) really diminished her standing in my eyes and I never was infatuated with her.
As far as Obama's "if you like you doctor you can keep them. if you like your insurance, you can keep it" was a process goal that was unmet, kinda like a hundred you hear every election cycle. Remember, Trump was going to cut the deficit and give us better cheaper health care, along with coal that burns so clean it could be labeled pristine. If puffery is lying and all lies are the same, every president is as dishonest as Trump. On the other hand, if you know your campaign has had 100 meetings with Russian operatives and you publicly claim it was zeros, instruct Mike Pence among others to say the New York Times is lying and unpatriotic to report otherwise, you are what I call a shameless liar. Similarly, if you order the White House counsel to fire Comey to thwart the investigation into Russian meddling and call the New York Times a "fake news" delivery mechanism, when in fact your own White House counsel thinks you did it to stop the investigation, you are a shameless liar.

Maybe lying, like deficit spending, or presidential golfing is only a problem when it's done by somebody in a different political party.

 

But most of the political media never cared about that and didn't treat her as such. They treated her like she was the smartest woman in the world and reinforced her entitlement.

And of course, if most of the media had their way, Hillary would never have been caught lying about the internet video, because nobody ever would have looked into it. You guys rolled your eyes at the whole matter. "What difference did it make?" was your mentality.

Nonsense. In 2008, it was a goal. In 2012, the legislation had been passed. It wasn't a goal anymore. It was a known fact. It's not like Trump saying he'd cut the deficit. It would be like Trump saying he has already cut the deficit.

Yet, most of you let Obama pitch what he and the media knew to be a lie. Had your industry had a shred of integrity and called ******** on him, we likely would have had a President Romney and wouldn't have had a President Trump.

And yet none of that was against the law or even very consequential. If he had been totally honest about that stuff, he'd actually be better off today. That doesn't make the lies ok. They aren't, but most of you shrugged and cared little about lies that were felonious (Bill Clinton's perjury), pivotal (Obama's lies about health plans), involved national security (Hillary's lies about her email server), and involved how an ambassador was killed (Hillary's lie and Benghazi).

And that's why labels like "fake news" and "enemy of the people" resonate. I can criticize Trump all day and sometimes do. However, I can't defend our political media, and they have absolutely no basis to complain about lies or really much of anything. Start giving a crap when Democrats lie about things that matter, and then I'll rally around you when you get upset about Trump lying about something that didn't.

Yes, that is true, and it is a shame that our political media exemplifies this so resoundingly.

 

What I find incredible is how Obama mocked Romney for engaging in Cold War thinking and then watched Russia hack our servers and annex Crimea. Then you had Obama confiding his flexibility after the election. NONE OF THAT MATTERED TO THE LEFT. And I feel 100% certain that their objections and pursuit of Trump had to do with power and nothing to do with loving and protecting America from THE NUMBER ONE GEOPOLITICAL THREAT as Romney put it.

My Dad always said to me, "Don't forget son, Russia has all those warheads and military that could over-run Europe very quickly." He told me that back when Gorbachev took over.

 

Comey lied when he told Trump he wasn’t under investigation. He also used that meeting to justify others to publicize the dossier. It was sleaze all the way down. Besides, FBI knew by then that Trump was clean.

 

So what would have happened if Comey had told Trump he was under investigation?

 

How telling is it that for each consecutive instance of a Trump lie the SAME example of their predecessors lies are used. It's a moral equivalence that has reached proportions best highlighted by this sign in North Carolina.

Trump won't change until his base holds him accountable. Given mchammer is STILL pushing conspiracy theories even after tasting Mueller's backside I don't have hope of any change. The more disheartening aspect is Mr. Deez using "whataboutism" yet trying to convince the reader is WASN'T "whataboutism". It appears even the fringe of the Republican party is so fearful of progressives to hold their own party accountable.

Tribalism sucks. Where have the Independents gone?

 

Says the biggest progressive *** kisser on the board.

 

In other words "someone with a progressive world view" OR different views than the JoeFan celebration posse. I'm a registered Independent.

 

Used it to his advantage in terms of telling the president that the previous admin was behind this, and that we need to start anew and with fairness.

 

You are going to be sorely disappointed when you find out about the depth of illegal spying that occurred.

 

Correct. Trump and his team should have had to answer a few questions and that should have been it. Making Trump and his team the centerpiece of this investigation was ridiculous.

 

It's because you progressives seem to ignore anything your side does and go after Trump. Btw, what "conspiracy theories" are you talking about?

 

What am I ignoring?

Is that an excuse for msking excuses for Trump lying?

 

That most presidents have trouble with the truth. Obama lied constantly and I don't remember hearing you complain about it during his presidency. All of a sudden you libs are now concerned with the truth. Sorry, but you're a hypocrite. I still want to know what these conspiracies that McHammer is supposedly saying.

 

Im still waiting for the outrage from the Left and MSM over the obstruction of justice / collusion committed by Loretta Lynch. Comey and Page made it clear they were pressured to go easy on Hillary. Not to mention the highly inappropriate meeting between Bill and Lynch.

 

The other thing that the Left casually avoids is that Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer who met with DJT Jr and claimed to have dirt on Hillary, was in the US to argue US law as a Russian lawyer on behalf of a Russian oligarch, was allowed in by Obama's DOJ. There were reasons to allow this, but it was a very uncommon occurrence.

To make matters worse, she was only allowed to be in the US for 3 months ending in Jan 2016. She them was allowed to enter in June 2016 despite the fact that she had charged $10,000s to the American taxpayer for her first stay. It took much pressure from the courts to get the original Visa granted because it was suspected that she would spy or inform for the Russian government, which she has admitted to doing.

At the very best, the whole meeting was only possible because of the laxity of the Obama administration. Trump's campaign members should have refused to meet with her. That is on them. Her being in the country is on the Obama administration and it was a dereliction of duty.

 

Whataboutism is used as a diversionary tactic to avoid scrutiny. I'm not doing that. Scrutinize Trump all you want. There's plenty to scrutinize, and I do it all the time. I'm pointing out hypocrisy and double standards. You can do that without it being whataboutism.

Let's change the facts a little and suppose that Trump had testified under oath during some facet of Mueller's work (perhaps to a grand jury or in the Manafort trial) and clearly perjured himself and suppose that he instructed others to similarly perjure themselves. Does that sound at all familiar to you? Now suppose Mitch McConnell had announced that none of that rose to the level of impeachment and he would summarily dismiss any impeachment brought by the House without a Senate trial. Of course, you might recall that McConnell voted to remove Bill Clinton from office for the same thing. Might you point out his double standard? I sure as hell would, and the Democrats and the media would be righteously shouting it from the rooftops.

Personally, I value consistency. It's how you separate who has real character and principles from who's a hack. I try to be consistent and take it to heart if I'm shown to be inconsistent in a given situation and try to adjust my views to reconcile them with my guiding principles. And when I see others who show themselves to be hacks, I'm going to call them on it. If the hypothetical scenario described above occurred, I'd call out Cocaine Mitch, and when I see Democrats and media figures sanctimoniously crap their pants and call for impeachment over lies when they've tolerated and exploited lies, I'm going to call them out, even as I condemn the lies from the guy supposedly in my tribe.

They're pitching getting rid of the electoral college, packing the Supreme Court, single-payer healthcare (expanding entitlements dramatically when reform is what's obviously needed to anyone who can do math), free tuition, the Green New Deal, and slavery reparations. Do you know how nutty that stuff sounds to pretty much anybody who isn't a radical and anyone who largely likes the United States as it is and has been for the last century or so? They could have been the voices of reason in the era of Trump, and they're doing everything they can to embrace wingnuttery.

I'm not sure if you're directing this my way or not, but I'm the least tribal person here. You may recall that I opposed Trump in 2016 and took a hell of a lot of crap on this board for doing so, and I took a lot more on social media from people who actually know me. Ask Garmel, mchammer, Joe Fan, and Horn6721 if I'm a loyal part of their "tribe." I think we know what their answer would be.

 

In 2016, I was more anti-Hillary than pro-Trump, and in that case we belonged to the same tribe. You didn’t vote for Hillary, which was a half-vote for Trump.

 

damn Mr D I hate to admit you don't seem part of my tribe
I guess we will never land a gig on Survivor.

 

Come join the dark side of the force. We have cookies!!!!

 

Twenty years ago, I was on the dark side of the force as much as anybody. I thought that virtually all Republicans were good and that all or certainly most Democrats were bad. When I was about 21 (about the time I finished my first session at the Capitol), I started to figure out that very few from either party are particularly good and that most of them are simply products of their districts and who's paying them. Few from either side are actually driven by any sincere principles. I'm not saying they don't have any beliefs of their own. I'm saying that they're driven by their pursuit of power. Raising money and appeasing certain facets of their constituencies are what drive their decisions.

And FWIW, there's beer on my side of the force. Lol

 

of whose paying them” is sufficient to say.

I do think some, prior to getting elected and thrown into the malaise may have honorable motives but the “pursuit of power” becomes intoxicatingly addictive. This is why I favor, even hearing the cons against, term limits.
In fact I still contend that major cause for the perpetual hate towards Trump is that those in power and those in pursuit resent his ‘outsider’ presence and attitude. Considering the historical immoral character of Presidents past I think this contributes more to the hatred than his own character issues.

 

So Obama, Biden, Comey, Clapper, Brennen, Clinton, Lynch, and the ones that directly answered to them always knew there was no collusion. They attacked President Trump so that they wouldn’t have to defend the corruption they were committing. They took the approach of having an endless offense to take the focus off of not having to play defense.

With the liberal media’s help it worked for 2 whole years. But the walls are collapsing all around them. Time to pay the piper.