Coach Herman's Mid Field Non-Punt Theory

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by horninchicago, Oct 20, 2019.

  1. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    Just watching the post game presser. In regards to the "We need to play better complementary football on offense" BS, here was his explanation.

    You don't punt on 4th and short. The offense should be able to get that. If you "...miss a punt and it goes in the end zone, you net 20 yards".

    I'm not inexpert like many on here on Xs and Os, but if you have defense that is riddled with injuries, see my other thread on that, why would you put them in a possible position of being at mid field?

    Someone help me out here on where I'm going wrong.

    Oh, he also, sarcastically I presume, started the presser with, "I love kickers". BS.
     
  2. EMJ426

    EMJ426 250+ Posts

    I was thinking the same watching the game. I am not opposed to the strategy of no kick, but at least put your best play in the mix. The lateral pass or whatever that is that we ran last night that never worked on 4th down was ridiculous. If you are going to go for it on 4th down outside the red zone, we should have ran Sam or Devaney
     
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  3. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    i totally get his math.

    If you can convert on half of those, that's 50% of the time the defense doesn't even get on the field. bad defense = offense needs to keep the ball.

    On the other 50%, he said the net is 20 yards between punting (post likely into the end zone) and giving it to them on their 45.

    i'd bet 20 yards if half the time we kept the ball.
     
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  4. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Conversely you need the points if the defense is bad.
     
  5. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    The problem is 4th down play calling, not the decision.
     
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  6. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    that's what coach said too
     
  7. Buck-Horn

    Buck-Horn Guest

    I just watched this 15 minutes of excuses & back-slapping....he did not want to he there. Man, he needs to think about getting some anger-management or etiquette therapy. Maybe he’s watching too many Trump pressers! :lol:
     
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  8. EMJ426

    EMJ426 250+ Posts

    That’s what I said
     
  9. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    I wasn't able to see the 1t quarter, so I missed both of the 4th down failures. Didn't KU score both times? Yes, you need the points, but allowing KU to score underscores my point.

    I guess, too, that Herman thinks 4th down conversions are easier than downing a punt around the 10 yard line or so.
     
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  10. wadster

    wadster 5,000+ Posts

    It's also a problem of where you do it. If you're at their 45 or in, sure go for it. On your 45 you DO NOT GO FOT IT. That's just stupid. Tired of mensa boy outthinking the obvious. A good 40 yd punt from your 45 pins them at the 10. Exactly what you want, and doubtful you'll put it in the end zone.
     
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  11. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    Yep. Doesn't it just mean he doesn't really believe in his defense?
     
  12. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    not arguing your point. just semi-questioning accuracy of what i assume are your stats. how often do you think punts between the 40s end up in the endzone?
     
  13. FWHORN

    FWHORN 10,000+ Posts

    Echoing several posters above, I had no problem with both decisions to go for it on fourth down, I had huge problem with both play calls. Line up and run Ingram or Roschon, they both were getting 4 plus yards a pop and when they did run that on the one fourth down they converted late in the third they got the needed yards.
     
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  14. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Well, i said it too! :beertoast:
     
  15. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    The only stats I could find are nfl punter stats. Last year the best had "inside the 20" punts 50%, while the worst were about 20%. That was for all punts.

    There are touchback stats. Many nfl punters have touchback rates over 10% of all punts. I think that number is high for ALL punts and punting from midfield has to make it very difficult to NOT get a touchback
     
  16. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 2,500+ Posts

    I was hoping for a punt to pin them deep, maybe get a safety and have them kick it right back. I guess mensa never thought about that, especially on your own side of the field.
     
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  17. ViperHorn

    ViperHorn 10,000+ Posts

    It is situational and not as cut and dry as Herman wants people to believe. If you have a good punter who can control his punts, you kick it unless time is running out. Otherwise, if you do not make it that is a turnover.
     
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  18. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    aside from the philosophical argument, how do we feel about our punter? teams have run 14 of his 27 punts (not fair caught the ball), 11 fair catches, 2 TBs.
     
  19. wadster

    wadster 5,000+ Posts

    If you're punting from your own 45, you gotta punt it 55 yds to reach the end zone. How often are college punters hitting it 55 yds. And if they do, you still net 35 which is not that bad. Why I said there was a big difference in going for it on their side of the 50 vs ours. Once inside the 45 I'm fine with going for it. But not from our side of the 50.
     
  20. Creek

    Creek 1,000+ Posts

    Given how we need 4 downs to get it because of a missed block or sack on first down... And when we focus we can get it. Plus the defense can't stop a nose bleed these days .It makes sense to me.
    I have other issues like using 1 running play (zone read )for majority of run plays. No I formation or single back or split back or under center plays.
     
  21. old65horn

    old65horn 1,000+ Posts

    Doesn't seem to matter whether they have a short or long field. The only difference it takes, sometimes, more time to go the long field. If you have the ball, it keeps their O on the sideline and runs clock.

    I like going for it. I hate the play selection. Run your offense, stop all the running exotic plays the players are not used to running. The normal plays are good enough.
    .
     
  22. NRHorn

    NRHorn 2,500+ Posts

    Or- UT hits both plays and he’s a genius and you love his courage.
    you guys are killing me.

    or with 8 secs, he trots out Dicker and Dicker misses, and the rumblings are about how Herman had enough time for a quick out to get closer...but of course it worked, so no need to complain.
    Oh wait we are UT, so let’s complain about that actually working.

    I also completely disagree, Herman was not being sarcastic about kickers.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  23. NRHorn

    NRHorn 2,500+ Posts

    to say that Herman was sarcastic about kickers? it won’t take long (as in the first 5 sec) in the video to refute that;


    to say he was angry? Wow, how does one get that from this presser? Unless one is predisposed to being a gossip girl. Nonsense.

    you want to debate play calling, fine but geez enough of the BS about Herman’s mindset.
     
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  24. horninchicago

    horninchicago 10,000+ Posts

    When I said he was being sarcastic, I meant it seemed like a shot at himself actually, not at kickers themselves. As in, maybe he realized there were times he should have kicked a FG instead of going for it. I know I said "BS" at the end of my comment. That was in error. I think he was trying to be funny with the I love kickers comment.

    I never said he seemed angry. Who said that?
     
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  25. Clean

    Clean 5,000+ Posts

    Every great coach of the past who won consistently; DKR, Bear Bryant, Ara Parseghian, Joe Pa, etc. would have punted in those situations. Why? Because of what Kansas did to us in the 4th quarter. You pin them deep and hope they make a mistake (Smith fumble) and then you get an easy score. Even if you don't get a TO, if you force them to punt, you get the ball in good field position, probably close to where you punted anyway. If neither of those things happen, it's damn hard to drive over 80 yards for a TD, even against our ****** defense.

    Even dumber than the 4th and shorts was his decision to throw for it with 8 seconds left and no timeouts! If Sam fumbles the snap, gets sacked, CJ doesn't get out of bounds, or we get a holding penalty, game over! And for what - 5 extra yards?

    Herman needs to throw the binder away and bone up on classical football strategy. He follows the Chip Kelly school of football theory; don't punt, why kick FGs, etc. That worked briefly at Oregon with a future pro QB, but hasn't worked since then.
     
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  26. crizistre

    crizistre 500+ Posts

    Couldn’t have said it any better.
     
  27. RainH2burntO

    RainH2burntO 2,500+ Posts

    Interesting...hearing multiple Cowboys players citing "complimentary football" after last nights beat down of Eagles.
     
  28. X Misn Tx

    X Misn Tx 2,500+ Posts

    it's my experience that only elite punters know how to drop it in and have it not have the bounce take it farther. returners often wave off a fake fair catch away from where the ball bounces because it normally bounces into the endzone.
     
  29. Run Pincher

    Run Pincher 2,500+ Posts

    I certainly agree with the 1st part, but it seemed to me like there was time to down it after the 1st down and still have about 8-10 seconds, thus being able to run a play and have the time out in case Devernay didn't get out of bounds.
     
  30. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    Yep. Nobody is complaining about the 3rd time we went for it, because we got that one.

    Well the game favored defense back then MUCH more then than it does now. 4th and 2 is greater than a 50/50 chance in the long run for even an average offense, thus worth it from midfield. And DKR would do stuff that the math says is the right choice that almost nobody does today (e.g. down 14, then scoring a TD and going for 2).
     
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