But I'd bet that if we were having a conversation about UBI most of the people on this board would default to "America is the land of opportunity and people have the ability to achieve whatever they want". So in that context, I'd be willing to bet that most folks would lean heavily on the "America is a meritocracy" argument. As would I. But I think it goes both ways. If we tell the impoverished masses that America is a meritocracy you just need to make good choices and work hard. (which I fervently believe). then we can sure as heck say to "rich kids"..."Your mom and dad already gave you a huge head start by giving you $5MM. Now you have to make the rest on your own. "
I would respond the same way I would respond to Monahorns question about what gives me the right to make "proclamations"... Nothing does. I'm not making Proclamations...I'm stating a position on taxation. That position only carries weight if I can get a majority of people to support it. aka...democracy. I would say something similar to you. While your view is that government is the "other", I believe the government is us...the people. So what gives the government the right ? The people do, via democracy.
If you believe the current government is “us,” that explains a lot. The current government is for themselves - both Republicans and Democrats. The sooner you recognize that, the better off you will be.
this period. It's not THIS government ... it's ANY government. Which is why the government is so restricted by the Constitution so that WE THE PEOPLE can live free ... which means we have a responsibility to be SELF-governing. We tend to like the 500# gorillas to do what we want ... but we ALWAYS end up being on the blunt end of the gorilla's to do list if we aren't one of the gorillas. ALWAYS. This is a fundamental difference between the so-called progressives and conservatives. the former (at best/best intentions) believe man is good inherently and those who would be granted the authority to act would do so honorably and with the utmost responsibility ... conservatives know that's not true. Man is inherently evil. No one has to teach their two year old to behave poorly. We're born with it. HENCE, as long as government is comprised of human beings, it will be faulty, therefore it needs to be limited, as it is the governing authority. But that means we have to govern ourselves ... and that doesn't come naturally either. So here we are. What could the solution be?
First, the American meritocracy is based on the market process. America is a place in general where the government doesn't interfere with the market process. What you propose is market interference. It is unAmerican. Second, the poor of this country have had a reasonable chance of improving their lot in life without this kind of hand out. We still have more class mobility than anywhere in the world. Again, that is because we don't have strict classes enforced by government and the barrier to entry into the market has been low. Keep those two things going and the hand out is completely unnecessary. Third, the tax won't work anyway. The rich and powerful write the rules. They will write any tax in a way that benefits themselves. Maybe there would be one group of rich that would be held to the tax but not by and large. It would lead to more entrenchment of an elite class. Also, it wouldn't work because rich people move their money out of the US tax system when laws like this get passed. Wealth taxes are similar and they have been tried in Europe. They don't work. So a tax like this likely won't accomplish anything but empowering the rich and powerful in government over the rest of us. No thank you.
ShAArk92, it is a little deeper than that. Conservatives believe that human nature exists. There is a type of natural law that governs how we act and why we act. The Founders idea of natural rights comes out of the philosophy of natural law. Leftists of all flavors don't believe there is human nature. They believe if you legislate an action, that action happens just as legislated. They their plans on how they think humans "should" act and not how they have always acted.
You bring up natural law. Our Declaration of Independence contains one of the greatest statements of natural law found outside the Scriptures.
thanks Monahorns ... just trying to modulate since some allow their being triggered by the Truth to occlude their thinking.
Giving government more money to spend is never a good idea. The money is better spent by those "rich kids" on boats and planes and vacations and such which helps keep people employed.
PE That is a pretty important point. The rich kids don't just sit in a mansion counting coins. Aside from rich kids who inherit businesses that they keep going employing people and turning out product and services they spend money which ends up in other not so rich people's pockets who then have money to spend on product and services others benefit from etc. OR the gov't could steal it all and then F'it up
Yep - if you give them money, they will spend it - and more. And come back for even more later. Their appetite is never satisfied.
