Can anyone justify NOT having the Wall?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Horn6721, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    Jorge Ramos wrote a piece in the NYT a couple days ago --

    Trump Got His Wish. Mexico Is Now the Wall
    " .... Mexico has effectively turned into an extension of Mr. Trump’s immigration police beyond American territory. And this is the case on multiple fronts: On the southern border with Guatemala, they prevent Central American migrants from coming into Mexico; on the northern one, they block those seeking entry to the United States from leaving. The decision of Mexico’s President Andrés Manuel López Obrador, also known as AMLO, to follow this approach is misguided. He should let migrants continue their journey north...."

    Opinion | Trump Got His Wish. Mexico Is Now the Wall.
     
  2. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    1,000 miles of Wall now funded
     
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  3. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    What's the cost up to?
     
  4. iatrogenic

    iatrogenic 2,500+ Posts

    Are you referring to net savings to the U.S. or cost of construction?
     
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  5. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    First, the projected total cost of construction since the project is underway.

    Second, the savings to the US including reducing Border Patrol and other law enforcement costs if available.

    Third, if the projection doesn't include the ongoing maintenance/repair cost, if you have a figure that would be good to have.

    I realize these will be different projections, some very high some very low, so if you have a good source for the cost/savings, please include that as well.

    Thanks!
     
  6. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

  7. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    The entire thread of the tweet is posted below because it is worse than just the headline Joe Fan posted.

    Meet 37 year old Ibrahim Aljahim, a Muslim immigrant from Yemen, who was charged by the Wayne County Prosecutor’s Office for allegedly raping a disabled teenager outside of a high school in September. Aljahim is being charged on two counts of criminal sexual conduct in the first degree after he participated in oral sex with a disabled male student.

    Aljahim was a school employee who reportedly used his position of authority to coerce the disabled student into these illicit homosexual actions. The student testified in court last week about his abuse. He claims that he and Aljahim performed oral sex on each other outside of Oakland International Academy’s high school in Hamtramack, MI.

    Now let’s get personal with Aljahim. He is a well-known Democratic Party activist in the state who regularly hobknobs with the liberal elite. He has been seen in photographs next to failed presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, House Majority Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, Congressman Debbie Dingell, Congresswoman Andy Levin, and many others. He recently campaigned on behalf of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) during his recent appearance in Hamtramck. Aljahim is also a strong supporter of Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-MI), the socialist far-left. Both Aljahim and Tlaib support Sanders, as Tlaib was recently seen endorsing Sanders for President at a campaign rally in Detroit. Just thought you needed to get some real news that will never get mentioned."
     
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  8. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

    These last 5 years have certainly revealed that a lot of men use the Dem Party as cover for their various perversions.
     
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  9. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    It also helps if the trial judge admits that the guy has done her political favors and then dismisses the charges. Link.
     
    • WTF? WTF? x 1
  10. Sangre Naranjada

    Sangre Naranjada 10,000+ Posts

    Wrong thread, but doesn't that taint the judge's finding? And why would prosecutors not object to that judge presiding over the case?

    I'm not going to say this man is guilty, but those questions make me concerned that that trial wasn't fair.
     
  11. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Wrong thread? You do know you can use the word "taint" in another thread, right? Lol

    As for the case, it's a Democratic activist being charged with a crime in Detroit with a Democratic judge presiding. You do the math. It's not just taint. It's three-day-old taint in the summer with the AC broken.
     
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  12. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

     
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  13. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts

    DHS waives contracting laws in bid to speed up border wall construction

    Haste to get his pet gov't project done over reasonable oversight? Once again, when the rubber meets the road he's no conservative.
     
  14. Vol Horn 4 Life

    Vol Horn 4 Life Good Bye To All The Rest!

    Let's be real clear that government oversight rarely and I would say practically never leads to higher quality and/or more fiscally conservative projects.
     
  15. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    1 out of 100 projects is fubar and likely corrupt. As a result, the remaining 99 projects suffer from over regulation that makes no sense. Get rid of the regulations and focus on auditing to find the corruption.
     
  16. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    It might be possible to justify waiving some rules, but when open competition is waived, it's almost always for a sleazy reason and frequently ends up in litigation. You should be suspicious of this move, not excited about it. You won't be suspicious of it, because it's Trump, but you should be.
     
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  17. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    My company allows for single sourced procurement with an exception request. Usually it goes to suppliers to have done the same or similar job within the past 2 years. I presume it is the case for the wall.
     
  18. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Your company is not like the government. It's a private business that presumably is run by people trying the best deal for itself. The government is run by people who are largely apathetic about how good of a deal the taxpayer gets. If rules are in place, they'll generally follow them. However, if the rules are set aside, you invite corruption. Let's just be honest. If we were talking about Obama setting aside competitive bidding for a project you don't like (such as the Obamacare website), you would be critical and rightly so.
     
  19. mchammer

    mchammer 10,000+ Posts

    Not necessarily. I hate procurement. Rules are for dumb people. I would rather have a mechanism that punishes poor behavior that enacting rules that hurt the proficient. Lax procurement procedures is not the problem. The problem is that you can’t fire gov employees.
     
  20. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    In government, you need rules, and you'd need them even if you could fire people more easily, because of the poor incentive structure. That's also why socialism would suck even if it was easy to fire government employees.
     
  21. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Govt procurement rules are a joke. A serious complicated innocuous joke. My experience is solely on the medical side so I shouldn’t be such a generalist about it but from my perspective there is not a ‘request for bid specs’ than mean anything (other than when written for a specific product).
    So yes, while this setting aside of rules may be disturbing it can be understood in light of how unnecessarily burdensome the normal procurement process is.
     
  22. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Sometimes it can be understood. However, setting the rules aside should be a cause for great suspicion. Would we blindly grant thr benefit of the doubt if the parties were reversed? I wouldn't, and I don't believe you all would either.
     
  23. Monahorns

    Monahorns 5,000+ Posts

    If bidding rules are set aside there should be some kind of public documented justification for it.

    Otherwise, the risk that Deez mentions is real. The project will be given to someone who is a friend of a politician, most likely as a result of money the politician has received as some form of contribution or will soon. Or the bid will go to someone who hires a friend or family member of a politician who doesn't have any of the skillset need for a lucrative position with the company.

    Rick Perry did it with the toll road building company back when he was governor.
     
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  24. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 2,500+ Posts

  25. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

    LOL! Do you know anything about Vicente Fox?
     
  26. LongestHorn

    LongestHorn 2,500+ Posts

    Not Fox News?
     
  27. Garmel

    Garmel 5,000+ Posts

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  28. nashhorn

    nashhorn 5,000+ Posts

    Sure it looks suspicious, but the truth is that even with standard procurement rules ‘friends’ get the bid, when a friend is a bidder.
     
  29. Mr. Deez

    Mr. Deez Beer Prophet

    Sometimes, yes. However, there is a bid protest process in place when that happens. If the rules are formally set aside, the non-corrupt contractors simply get screwed. And if you're cool with it, that's fine. Just don't complain about the government spending too much money on things.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  30. Joe Fan

    Joe Fan 10,000+ Posts

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