News Story on Med Mal Tort Reform

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by AustinBadger, May 16, 2008.

  1. brandons87

    brandons87 250+ Posts


     
  2. Fievel121

    Fievel121 2,500+ Posts

    Brandon -- did you see my link to Tort Deformed? It shows that Doctors practicing in Texas have increased around the same percentage since 92
     
  3. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry 1,000+ Posts

    I don't see how somebody can make so many good points on so many threads and yet be so completely inane on a single topic.

    Gee, I wonder why NYC's healthcare costs are higher than anywhere else. Might it have anything to do with the fact that NYC's costs are higher than anywhere no matter what costs you're talking about?

    NYC's apartment costs are higher than everywhere else. They need apartment lawsuit reform, I guess.

    By the way, I show 240 physicians per capita for New York City. 270 for Houston. I'm assuming those are based on a per 100,000 people figure.

    I will note, though, that I don't trust those figures without a cite. I get about 332 per capita for NYC from this link but haven't found a good study for Houston.
     
  4. AustinBadger

    AustinBadger 250+ Posts

    The Link

    Another good story on the effects of tort reform, this time in the area of worker's comp and refinery accidents. Story called "Justice for Sale".

    Glad these stories are finally getting out.

    Really looking forward to November, as I do believe we will see some major changes at the Texas Supreme Court.
     
  5. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry 1,000+ Posts

    brandon -

    Once again, nobody is arguing that doctor's premiums didn't go down.

    Stop convulsing about that argument.

    And your note about the appeal to authority fallacy is nice and all, but you refuse to recognize that you are taking everything out of context. The news story used that stat specifically to counter the argument that the TAPA guy made. Kind of like how you are using numbers to refute arguments others make.

    You are still being silly.
     
  6. AustinBadger

    AustinBadger 250+ Posts


     
  7. brandons87

    brandons87 250+ Posts


     
  8. Huckleberry

    Huckleberry 1,000+ Posts

    By the way, I'm curious to find the number of physicians per capita of Rome and Milan. Also Paris, Reykjavik, and others.

    I'm not saying I'm sure, but I'm thinking that brandon's statement that NYC has the highest number of physicians per capita in the WORLD is one of those "outright lies" he hates so much.
     
  9. brandons87

    brandons87 250+ Posts


     
  10. brandons87

    brandons87 250+ Posts

    Here's a link for you huckleberry about how more doctors leads to higher healthcare costs INDEPENDENT of cost of living indices:
    The Link


     
  11. Wesser

    Wesser 1,000+ Posts


     
  12. brandons87

    brandons87 250+ Posts


     
  13. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn 1,000+ Posts

    Comparing level of care to Minneapolis seems like cherry picking. Rochester (I'm betting that's thrown in) is of course home to one of the top 10 hospitals in the world.

    Austin Badger re-iterates my economic point and also brings the valid perspective that comparing doc's comp to lawyers is absurd, when you consider PI guys have to front the cash for the lawsuit themselves.
     
  14. Uninformed

    Uninformed 5,000+ Posts


     
  15. brandons87

    brandons87 250+ Posts


     
  16. AustinBadger

    AustinBadger 250+ Posts


     
  17. brandons87

    brandons87 250+ Posts

    Austinbadger, do you have any real numbers to prove that med mal suits are declining because of prop 12, and that the suits that are not being taken are legit?

    Because multiple sources show the number of claims as basically untouched since prop 12.

    The only thing I've heard so far is anecdotal ******** which means nothing.
     
  18. Ag with kids

    Ag with kids 2,500+ Posts


     
  19. Fievel121

    Fievel121 2,500+ Posts

    Brandon, could you explain some math to me. You say that the amount of Doctors in Texas is going up. The amount of procedures is going up. By the amount of lawsuits have stayed the same. Per your own examples, the amount of lawsuits has actually gone down if you compare it to the amount of procesdures.
     
  20. AustinBadger

    AustinBadger 250+ Posts


     
  21. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn 1,000+ Posts

    Ag- you are also not factoring in risk.

    Noone with any sense is going to risk putting in 100k of their own money for a crack at whatever their contingency is on 250k. You'd be crazy to do so b/c you never know what a jury is going to do and 100k expenses in a blown case is a huge hit to most PI guys and likely to bankrupt you if you gamble wrong more than once.

    Think of it like making a bet at a casino and it starts to make sense. You might take the pats against the field before the start of the year if you are getting 8-1 b/c it represents reasonable return on your risk, but you are unlikely to do so against the field if your wager is being paid off at 1-1. It totally stacks the odds against the lawyer makes them unlikely to want to take a case.

    sure, it's worth doing if you are guaranteed to win, but it's way too much cash to expend when you factor in risk of loss and certainty that your payoff isn't going to be very big.

    Also- I in no way practice PI nor am I friends with anyone that does. I"m more a business man than a lawyer and I can tell you as someone who runs a small business there is no way I'd pony up that much cash for that little return. Most sensible people wouldn't, htus no case to speak of.
     
  22. BA93

    BA93 1,000+ Posts

    I don't have a problem with a cap, in theory; but I believe that 250K is too low. and on top of that, it should have been tied to some type of inflation index so that it can grow. Now, you will have the insurance industry fighting to the death on any increase and/or elimination of the cap.
     
  23. LurkerintheDark

    LurkerintheDark 250+ Posts

    Brandons87, I'm confused.

    On the one hand, you seem to be singing the praises of tort reform because it has increased the number of doctors in Texas.

    On the other hand, you are hellbent on showing how a high number of doctors drives up medical costs.

    How does that benefit the people of Texas (as opposed to insurance companies and doctors)?
     
  24. hornpharmd

    hornpharmd 5,000+ Posts

    I guess we'll never get stories like those in 'Rainmaker' with these caps. Laws that benefit only insurance companies or unethical or greedy physicians are immoral.
     
  25. Fightin' Horn II

    Fightin' Horn II 500+ Posts

    Ag--

    In Texas only certain types of suits allow for the plaintiff to recover his attorneys' fees, like contract/commerical cases. In tort suits the plaintiff's attorneys' fees come straight out of the recovery.

    As such, there is not much solace to the injured folks by getting back their "medical expenses." Invariably, they will only get back a fraction of those costs, because the plaintiff's attorney has to recover their expenses-- hiring experts, collecting records, court reporting fees, etc, etc.

    At the end of the day, there really is no point in debating folks like Brandon. Such persons are entirely wedded to their position and will not concede a single point.

    The only people who get screwed in this whole deal, are injured people. We lawyers can find different things to do, and areas in which to practice. But if a 10 year is hurt permanently, they have very little recourse.
     
  26. johnny chimpo

    johnny chimpo 500+ Posts


     
  27. Fightin' Horn II

    Fightin' Horn II 500+ Posts

    chimpo--

    Shouldn't the winners be the citizens of Texas?
     
  28. johnny chimpo

    johnny chimpo 500+ Posts

    Absolutely, but the runaway personal injury lawsuits of the 80's and 90's didn't do the Texas citizens (on the whole) any favors, save for a handful of attorneys. What it did do is create an entitlement mindset in our citizens. Sometimes people need to face the fact that **** just happens.

    I know there are many incompetent and unscrupulous physicians out there who deserve to be sued and stripped of their license, but I am comfortable that victims of said doctors can recover every penny of their economic damages and an untaxed quarter mil for their troubles. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but expert witness fees are taxed as court costs, and recoverable in a successful suit.

    If certain citizens fall victim to a doctor's negligence and can't find an atty to represent them due to costs, don't blame those nasty Republicans, simply look at the excesses of the trial lawyers' bar over the last 25 years.
     
  29. LurkerintheDark

    LurkerintheDark 250+ Posts


     
  30. Fightin' Horn II

    Fightin' Horn II 500+ Posts

    Lurker--

    There were no such "runaway" verdicts. But you cannot convince tort "reformers" otherwise.
     

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