still dont get the touchback ruling

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Doughbroz, Oct 5, 2008.

  1. Doughbroz

    Doughbroz 250+ Posts

    If someone explained this,I missed it. Commentator said the whistle hadn't blown, so why is that not a live ball and a safety, or Colorado's ball inside the one yard line if the returner brought if out past the goal line and was pushed back into the end zone? At least I got a satisfactory explanation of the illegal forward pass rule out of this game. If the rule was changed to its current status at some point, I missed that as well. Before yesterday,I always thought the release point of the ball had to be behind the line of scrimmage.
     
  2. LonghornLawOwl

    LonghornLawOwl 25+ Posts

    I'll take a shot - any one can feel free to correct me.

    The ball never came out of the endzone completely. If it had, and we tackled him back into the endzone - it would have been a safety.

    We just tackled him in the endzone. That is the equivalent of him downing the ball in the endzone -- touchback.
     
  3. Superfan

    Superfan 250+ Posts

    actually, the ball just never came all the way out (in a way that was reviewable), but the returner did back up into the endzone.

    IF you could have a shot that proved it did come all the way out, then it was a safety, as the returner clearly stepped backwards before AWill did his best Goldberg impression. [​IMG]
     
  4. texascoder

    texascoder 1,000+ Posts

    About the touchback, I think the announcers said that the entire ball has to come out of the endzone for it to not be a touchback in that situation. I think part of his foot and maybe half the ball (hard to tell from the TV replays) came out so if that's what the rule is then the refs got it right.

    About Colt's almost-pass-beyond-the-LOS, the announcers initially thought that it might be a penalty because the ball was clearly past the LOS when it left his hand, but after the replay confirmed the non-call on the field, the announcers mentioned that starting this year the NCAA made their rule consistent with the NFL which says that if any body part of the passer is behind the LOS then it's ok. And if I saw the replays correctly, Colt's feet were behind the LOS when he release the ball.
     
  5. TexanWolv

    TexanWolv 1,000+ Posts

    So....There really would have been no way for that to be a safety because if the ball had come all the way out of the endzone the forward progress would have put them at the 1.
     
  6. Dogbert

    Dogbert 500+ Posts

    It's a curious rule. The whistle had not blown, but the ball was not yet live. What if the CU player dropped it in the end zone while bumbling around? Live ball? Can Texas recover?
     
  7. UTEE

    UTEE 1,000+ Posts

    No, because the carrier willingly moved back into the endzone of his own volition. Forward progress applies when the ballcarrier is hit and pushed back. But when the ballcarrier deliberately takes steps to backtrack, forward progress is not awarded.

    So if the ball had come all the way out, then the carrier stepped back into the endzone of his own volition and was tackled there, then it would have been a safety.

    The gray area here is, does the rule state the ball has to come all the way out, and if so, was there any way to tell if it did so?

    Regardless, it was a boneheaded play by the CU ballcarrier, and a very heads-up play from the Texas coverage team.
     
  8. Cheese Taco

    Cheese Taco 25+ Posts

    It is the reverse situation from a touchdown. If any part of the ball touches the line, it is considered in the end zone for a touchdown. Conversely, the entire ball has to come out of the end zone to be considered out of the end zone.
     
  9. TexanWolv

    TexanWolv 1,000+ Posts

    Speaking of this discussion it reminds me another point I'm always thinking about and thought about during that play.

    How long is it going to be before we consistently have cameras lined up on the goal line at all times? Not just when its a goaline offense but all the time. How many times do you see the goaline come into play yet they never have a camera available to show exactly where the ball was?
     
  10. Superfan

    Superfan 250+ Posts

    I am guessing we'll be getting all games in HD before that happens, and we don't have all games in HD yet.
     
  11. the Saint

    the Saint 500+ Posts

    Didn't Ramonce Taylor do the same thing once upon a time (Columbus?)? It worked in our favor then as I recall... either because he escaped or it was ruled he didn't come out.
     
  12. 13evO

    13evO 500+ Posts

    I'd be so embarrassed if my uncle did that.
     
  13. The Greatest

    The Greatest 500+ Posts

    much like i don't get how the outside of the pylon is considered part of the endzone even though it is 3 or 4 inches out of bounds, or why a fumble out of the endzone goes to the defense even if they don't recover it while a fumble out at the 1-inch line goes to the offense, i don't get why the entire ball has to come out of the endzone. the nose of the ball marks progress in every other situation. when you go into the endzone, the nose has to break the plane. when they bring out the chains to measure for first downs, they measure to the nose of the ball, because that is what is considered forward progress. yet for some reason, coming out of the endzone, we have yet another rule that creates a discontinuity down at the goalline and we have decided that the back of the ball now marks forward progress.

    maybe there's a good reason, though i doubt it, but whoever made the rules at the goalline should have consulted with the guy who made the rules for the other 100 yards of the field so they could be consistent.
     
  14. eflow24

    eflow24 1,000+ Posts


     
  15. the Saint

    the Saint 500+ Posts

    I remember now, but what I couldn't recall was whether the "escape" was necessary. Had the ball actually broken the goal.
     
  16. Hu_Fan

    Hu_Fan Guest

    I read through the post quickly, but as I remember the play THE KNEE WAS NEVER PUT ON THE GROUND.

    The runner stood, walked, eased up to the field and stepped on and slightly across the line. Then was tackled into the end zone.

    He made no attempt to down the ball in the end zone.

    It was a safety if you ask me. He was tackled in the end zone without ever making an effort to down the ball, and on top of that he walked up to and slight on/over the goal line facing the playing field. If he'd been in the endzone scrambling to pick up the ball and got tackled: safety. If he moves toward the playing field standing erect carrying the ball: safety.

    It was a blown call.
     
  17. austintex

    austintex 500+ Posts

    I wish the announcers had talked about that passing-after-the-line-of-scrimmage rule a little more. I feel they didn't really give a discussion of it the airtime it deserved.
     
  18. Ignatius

    Ignatius 1,000+ Posts


     
  19. ToxicShock

    ToxicShock 100+ Posts

    Great play by TRUE freshman Aaron Williams to be heads up enough to know that a whistle wasn't blown and go ahead and light him up. I don't care what he's done in practice, he really needs to see some gametime.
     
  20. Duff_Man

    Duff_Man Guest


     
  21. 71grad

    71grad 1,000+ Posts

    The ball nver came totally out of the endzone so it is a touhback.

    In reply to Dogbert: On a kickoff the ball is live. A loose ball in the end zone may be recovered for a touchdown. We did that to Tech and TCU both back in the old SWC days.
     
  22. TenDeadF1ngerz

    TenDeadF1ngerz 100+ Posts


     
  23. M C Orange

    M C Orange 100+ Posts

    [​IMG] what was that dumb *** doing anyway?
     
  24. Orange90

    Orange90 25+ Posts


     
  25. orange turdfrog

    orange turdfrog 25+ Posts


     
  26. txfight84

    txfight84 100+ Posts

    ^^^^^

    because the ball is dead as soon as it touches the endzone untouched by the receiving team...same concept as a punt...

    i believe that is the rule anyway...
     
  27. NJlonghorn

    NJlonghorn 2,500+ Posts

    Think about it this way. No matter what the context is, if any part of the ball is in the endzone, the ball is considered to be in the endzone. Viewed in this light, all of the rules are consistent.

    Another way to think about it -- suppose that breaking the plane was enough to get out, and a ball carrier was tackled while the nose was over the goal line but the back of the ball was in the endzone. Where would they spot the ball? On the goal line? The only logical answer is to say that the ball is still in the endzone. Depending on the context, it is either a touchback or a safety.
     
  28. bluto

    bluto 500+ Posts

    take the touchdown goalline plane of the end zone rule... all the ball has to do is touch it. its the opposite with the touchback rule.

    going in just the tip, just for a second just to see how it feels.
    coming out, the full ball has to come out.
     
  29. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest

    then why do you even go through the rigamorale of taking a knee in the endzone? Are Texas players supposed to hang around the 1 yard line and wait for him to come out? What if he stands in the endzoen with the ball in his hands for ever?


    Regardless, the Colorado guy got absolutely annilated by the Texas guy on that play.
     
  30. Wesser

    Wesser 1,000+ Posts

    Just got back from Boulder tonight... awesome time.

    Interesting thread... our seats were right on the goal line on the second row. Our whole section was kinda stunned about the sheer stupidty of the play.

    My two cents, which was shouted at the official -- if you don't know if the ball came out -- and he clearly did not (deer in headlights) then punish stupidity. Pure and simple. Smith was a moron and if you are sure, light him up for a safety and let the replay sort it out. My understanding from text messages (I still have not seen a replay) is that it was pretty unclear if the ball came all the way out. From looking live right down the line it was damn obvious that his foot and most of his upper body were over the line. Unfortunately, I did not notice the exact position of the ball and from the position of the official, there was no way for him to have seen it either.

    Punish the moron. He deserved it.
     

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