10 Things to know about WW2

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Wild Bill, May 25, 2009.

  1. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill 1,000+ Posts


     
  2. rickysrun

    rickysrun 2,500+ Posts

    It started when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor
     
  3. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest


     
  4. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill 1,000+ Posts


     
  5. ProdigalHorn

    ProdigalHorn 10,000+ Posts

    I wonder how much the Soviet casualties skew that number. Regardless, it was interesting watching Patton yesterday and thinking about his take on the Normandy invasion and how he felt it was bungled. You really wonder if the Germans would have been beaten at all if not for having to fight a two-front war and essentially having wave after wave of men thrown at them.

    Of course, the Italians surrendering so quickly probably helped that too. [​IMG]
     
  6. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill 1,000+ Posts


     
  7. davvvy

    davvvy 100+ Posts

    The German/Russian Eastern front of WWII makes every other theater of war pale in comparison. Horrific fighting and millions and millions dead. I'm not sure any other country would have been willing to sacrifice it's people to such a degree as Russia did just to keep from surrendering. Ironically, we should pay Stalin a small tribute on Memorial day also. If it wasn't for his willingness to shoot his own soldiers if they wouldn't advance... well, no telling what the outcome of WWII would have been, but it most definitely would have cost us a hell of a lot more lives.
     
  8. 4th&5

    4th&5 1,000+ Posts


     
  9. MaduroUTMB

    MaduroUTMB 2,500+ Posts

    Here's the huge *** fact that is borne out by, of all things, Axis and Allies: Japan and the USSR were not at war until 1945. The army that the Soviets beat Hitler with was free to do that only because Japan was no longer in a position to do anything to Russia. Japan needed that armistice more than anything because we were already pressing them and on the way to handing them one of the more consistent and workman-like asskickings in the history of naval warfare.

    We broke their code. We left their dudes on islands such they they were still stealing chickens in the 19-*******-80s. We sank their merchant marine: it was at 25% of its initial tonnage by the end of the war despite wartime production that exceeded the starting value. We broke their navy and splashed their naval air force. Of the seven most fearsome battleships ever built, we bombed two into the sea floor, sank another with torpedoes (the third Yamato-class was converted to a support carrier, but it's not well known because it didn't get very far) and used the other 4 to administer further beatings. We closed out the performance by burning their capital to the ground and leveling two of their industrial centers- from the air.

    The point being, America reached around the globe from two directions and put the hurt on the Axis powers in a way that no two of the other participants could have. The Russians deserve (and get) a ton of credit for taking a beating that would've probably destroyed any other nation. However, the idea of Russia slugging it out with the Nazis while America screwed around on the periphery is pretty damn naive.
     
  10. Wesser

    Wesser 1,000+ Posts

    I always dispute this notion that without Russia, the war would have been lost. Balls. It is true that the Germans would have likely built 'Fortress Europa' into an impregnable stronghold. However, Germany had already taken its best shot at a cross-channel invasion of Britain and British air superiorty and the presence of the vastly superior Royal Navy had twarted the invasion during the early air bombardment stages (Battle of Britain - the 'Blitz'). The Nazis weren't able to destroy Britain in 1940-1941 before the Russian campaign began.

    Moreover, regardless of whether we could have successfully launched a D-Day-esque invasion of Europe, the war would have ended by 1946 anyway. Check out some of the US miltary plans for war production into late 1945-1946. One, the B-36 was developed for the sole purpose of delivering multiple atomic bombs onto targets in central Germany from air bases in North Africa and even the East Coast of the US. The facilities at Los Alamos and Oak Ridge were not being built to drop two bombs on Japan, but hundreds of bombs on Germany. Quite literally, the absence of a an Eastern front would have prevented an invasion of Normandy, but assured the atomic annihilation of Germany.
     
  11. TexonLongIsland

    TexonLongIsland 2,500+ Posts

    Well we invade Morocco, Italy and France that had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor.
     
  12. Macanudo

    Macanudo 2,500+ Posts


     
  13. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest


     
  14. Macanudo

    Macanudo 2,500+ Posts

    A considerable number of those 20 mil were by design, choice or poor leadership both on the battlefield and in the Kremlin. Russia gets too much credit, IMO. When people see that number, there is an inclination to think "Wow, poor saps." When, in reality, a lot of that was avoidable.
     
  15. 7Titles

    7Titles 500+ Posts


     
  16. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest


     
  17. BevoJoe

    BevoJoe 10,000+ Posts

    In '41 the Russians were caught completely by surprise, Stalin thinking that Hitler would really honor the '39 non-aggression pact. Many troops were captured and died in captivity, later whole units were destroyed. Stalin implemented a policy that any person that surrendered would have his family thrown into prison.

    A large number of non-combatant civilians were killed in Russia. The SS and the Einsatz Units looked for JEws and under the Kommisar Directive, many party members were killed. The policy from Berlin was to create "lebens raum" as was done in Poland and exterminate the inferior slavic populace. Result, 23-27 million total dead.

    In 1945 all Russian orders to commanders contained the phrase "at all costs" and that meant relentless attacks to capture the missions objective and it worked. Capturing Berlin alone, the 2 week campaign cost upward of 600K dead and another approximately 1.0million wounded by some reports.

    If you can find a copy the History Channel ran a pretty good documentary titled "Berlin At All Costs" back inthe mid 90s.
     
  18. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest


     
  19. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill 1,000+ Posts


     
  20. Coelacanth

    Coelacanth Guest


     
  21. AustinBat

    AustinBat 2,500+ Posts


     
  22. DeadHorse

    DeadHorse 1,000+ Posts

    If you have the time to watch it, "The War" is an EXCELLENT piece. Too many tid bits to mention but if you're a history and/or WWII buff, you should definitely watch the entire program.
     
  23. tallgrant

    tallgrant 250+ Posts

    The other item not being mentioned about the Soviets is that the real thing that saved Moscow was the winter, not the men. Once the frost set in the Germans got really bogged down, and they were within 20 miles of the Kremlin before then. The Russians were adapted to the weather and started to push back.

    The Russian solution to having inferior technology/training was to throw more men at it. It did work, but they had a horrific number of casualties doing it.
     
  24. Woland

    Woland 500+ Posts

    Two observations I have made in Russian military museums and have found interesting:

    1. There is a huge emphasis on the Lend-Lease program and how it was critical for the success of the Soviet army.
    2. There is a de-emphasis of the role of the U.S. in defeating Japan, and much of the credit for the surrender of Japan is given to the Soviet Union.
     
  25. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest


     
  26. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill 1,000+ Posts


     
  27. Woland

    Woland 500+ Posts


     
  28. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest


     
  29. gecko

    gecko 2,500+ Posts

    As the great Soviet army swept across eastern Germany an estimated 40,000+ German women were raped.

    Another fun fact I find troubling is we "loaned" some 100,000+ German prisoners-of-war to the Russians as slave laborers to assist the USSR with rebuilding infrastructure....hardly any were returned, those who didn't return are unaccounted for to this day.
     
  30. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill 1,000+ Posts

    When Tojo's diary was released to the West back in August, it revealed that he was not going to surrender even after the atomic bombs had been dropped.

     

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