JOE LEGAL AND JOSE ILLEGAL

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by PhantomHorn, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. PhantomHorn

    PhantomHorn 1,000+ Posts

    Here is an example of why hiring illegal aliens is not economically
    productive for the United States. Try to follow along.

    You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal"
    Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California.

    Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and
    makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.
    Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security
    Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".
    Ready? Now pay attention...

    Joe Legal: $25..00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or
    $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax;
    Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

    Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or
    $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now
    has $31,200.00.

    Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage
    for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe
    Legal now has $24,031.00.

    Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state
    and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still
    has $31,200.00.

    Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps
    or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00
    per year.
    Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

    Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food
    stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

    Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year.
    Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

    Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose
    Illegal pays $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal
    still has $25,200.00.

    Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe
    Legal now has $7,231.00.

    Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still
    has $25,200.00.

    Joe Legal has to make his $9,631.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.
    Jose Illegal has to make his $25,200.00 stretch to pay utilities,
    gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

    Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.
    Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

    Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school
    Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's
    children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children
    have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home.
    Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire
    services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

    If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal
    aliens... You are part of the problem!
     
  2. chango

    chango 2,500+ Posts

    You nailed it. Illegal aliens have got it made!
     
  3. MaduroUTMB

    MaduroUTMB 2,500+ Posts

    That's not an argument against illegal immigrants; it's an argument against federal handouts to anyone with a pulse and a vote (and sometimes only the latter).
     
  4. PhantomHorn

    PhantomHorn 1,000+ Posts

    There is no incentive for citizenship… no incentive for the illegal employee, or the illegal employer, especially in a system where politicians work hard to prevent prosecution of their crime. The employee, as noted, makes more money, the employer makes more money and even has enough left over to fund the reelection of the bastard politician who knows the sugar daddy will keep providing those funds to keep him in office as long as the gravy train stays open.

    Legalized, institutionalized corruption… besides, who would want to be an American citizen when doing so makes you a slave to public debt and unfunded liabilities which is in excess of $200,000 per person? Gee, can I renounce my citizenship to this government and only claim citizenship to a US Constitution in exile? I wonder when the exit tax is coming… oh wait, they already passed it.
     
  5. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest

    hmmm, Joe Legal and Jose Illegal... The agenda behind this post is revealed in the subject title.
     
  6. Laphroaig10

    Laphroaig10 1,000+ Posts

    Maduro's got it. The solution to gov't excess isn't more gov't excess.
     
  7. Horn-N-LA

    Horn-N-LA 1,000+ Posts

    Obviously the point of the post is completely lost on Yol. Go figure.
     
  8. PhantomHorn

    PhantomHorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  9. longtex

    longtex Guest

    The real problem isn't that there are "illegals" taking advantage of the programs - there are plenty of "legals" taking advantage of the very same programs. The problem is the existence of the programs in the first place.
     
  10. hooklahoma

    hooklahoma 1,000+ Posts

    I dont have a problem w/ illegal aliens, despite being well right of center. They bust their *** and abuse social services at a rate well below that which US citizens w/ the same skill set do. I think we need more people like that, not less. That being said, the thing that amazes me is how, as a society, we decide which laws are enforced and which are not. Apparently , california, cant decide to withhold services from non-citizens despite being within their right to do so. Even more aggravating is the de-portation last year of a well known Pediatric Oncologist who was from Egypt. How come he has to go, but if you're MExican they leave you alone.

    I get your point, but the genie is out of the bottle with this one.
     
  11. GT WT

    GT WT 1,000+ Posts

  12. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts

    Yol is a watch dog. He makes sure that everything stays PC.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. groverat

    groverat 2,500+ Posts

    FW: FW: FW: FW: FW: My Thinking Done For Me


     
  14. wolfman

    wolfman 1,000+ Posts

    How the hell is that racism? Illegal is the operative word. The problem is our stupid government that does nothing about this situation because they bend to race baitors with an un-American agenda.
     
  15. Oilfield

    Oilfield Guest

    Obviously this is satire in bad taste but is does a decent job of illustrating why a key point of the "Universal Heathcare" idea is such a load of crap.

    If we can't manage to "require" people to fill out their immigration paperwork, how the hell are we going to "require" them to have health insurance? The clear answer is that we are not and we will continue to cover them despite the Glorious Speech by Mr. President last week.
     
  16. Namewithheld

    Namewithheld 2,500+ Posts


     
  17. groverat

    groverat 2,500+ Posts

    In reply to:


     
  18. accuratehorn

    accuratehorn 10,000+ Posts

    Yes, we need a national ID system for workers, and all employers would withhold FICA, which these workers would not receive unless they become American citizens, and the laws should be enforced on employers, and not having car insurance should be a bigger offense.
    Next.
     
  19. mcbrett

    mcbrett 2,500+ Posts

    My closest friend is an ER doctor- I visited him a few weeks ago in the hospital after having a little accident. I never witnessed so many US Citizens taking advantage of free health care before in my life- and for reasons that were completely absurd. E.g. this private hospital had to absorb somehow every lunatic who claimed they had a medical issue when the real problem was more mental. The hospital was also hosting several drunks until they sobered up because the police brought them there as a precaution.

    We can point our fingers at illegals- and yes some of them get too good of a deal at our expense, but there probably are 5 US citizens playing the same game for every "Jose Illegal" reaping benefits from the system.
     
  20. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest


     
  21. Namewithheld

    Namewithheld 2,500+ Posts


     
  22. alden

    alden 1,000+ Posts

    This post gets a lot of details wrong.

    It also suffers from the flaw that for most things, Joe Legal could act the same way as Jose Illegal. Sure, Joe Legal could stop paying taxes and stop buying insurance. If being an illegal immigrant was really a better deal, then citizens would do most of these same steps.

    Most of these problems aren't an issue with illegal immigrants. They just make an easy target because a lot of people are at least a little bit xenophobic. Just like people blame attorneys for legal problems, even though they are usually just the middlemen following the laws in place. It's easier to blame the lawyers that people already hate rather than the individuals who hired them, or the judges/juries that handed out the ruling.
     
  23. Texas_Rocks

    Texas_Rocks 500+ Posts

    It is strictly fantasy to believe that voting and non voting Mexican Americans will ever ALLOW the U.S. Government to uphold immigration laws that are presently in place. This is FACT!
     
  24. mcbrett

    mcbrett 2,500+ Posts


     
  25. BrothaHorn

    BrothaHorn 1,000+ Posts


     
  26. Texex81

    Texex81 500+ Posts

    The issue is supply and demand. The best capitalism money can buy. You can blame illegals, but the issue is with the system. Fix that.

    I've always wondered why we don't have a guest worker program. While it is a "system" at least there is some sort of control.

    Maybe we are all overpaid (or we don't want to do that type of labor), hence the cheap labor flooding the borders. And an "easy" way for companies to cut costs.

    White collar jobs are being shipped overseas. That concerns me. What is left? Manufacuring? Not much. Farming? I'm not picking grapes are you? White collar? Maybe.

    Illegals are an easy target, but you have got to fix the system. I don't have the answers, but at least I understand supply and demand. That is a start.
     
  27. groverat

    groverat 2,500+ Posts


     
  28. mcbrett

    mcbrett 2,500+ Posts


     
  29. ShinerChE

    ShinerChE 250+ Posts

    So how would one fix the system?

    My solution would be a limit on the benefits (welfare only) one can receive in a lifetime for able bodied people. If you are able to work but fall on hard times, you will not be allowed to fall into total poverty but you can only claim benefits up to a monetary amount after that you are out of luck unless you can prove that you are disabled. To make this work, you have to rigorously verify that the person claiming disability is truly disabled to keep fraud to a minimum.

    Grove and YoL would you agree to a cap on the amount of welfare benefits one can receive in a lifetime while on the govt dole?

    Secondly, I would create a documented workers program so you can track who comes in and capture taxes on this money. If they are going to be accessing the system, then the money they earn should be paying for that system. If a worker is caught working outside the documented workers program, the worker is deported and the business is fined and put on probation. The probation would include yearly audits of their employment records.

    Lastly, for all the current illegals in the country that can prove a work history (phone bills, rent, etc.), they can pay a fine for entering illegally (some % of unpaid taxes) and they are enrolled in the documented workers program. If you can't prove a work history, you will be subject to deportation.

    Those that say deport them all are in a fantasy world. It would cost too much and be very ineffective. One has to be practical about the problem.
     
  30. general35

    general35 5,000+ Posts

    What do you have a right to as a US citizen that you are not getting because of illegal immigrants?
    _________________________________________________

    i know for a fact that property taxes are higher in houston to pay for spanish only schools and to pay for the county and public hospitals that pay for the uninsured, most of them illegals. why dont you go to the waiting room at ben taub on a saturday night and take a look around.
     

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