Obama doesnt bow to leaders?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by general35, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. 911_horn

    911_horn 500+ Posts


     
  2. El Torito

    El Torito 1,000+ Posts

    Obama needs to do himself, and everyone else, a favor and not freakin' bow to foreign heads of state, royalty, or whatever. He's smart enough to realize that he can accomplish whatever legitimate end he has in mind without resorting to this public display of servility. [​IMG]
     
  3. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    "eh, I'd prefer him to not bow, but whatever".

    I'd prefer he learn history and over 200 years of established USA protocol before he spouts ignorance or acts like a doofus.

    I can see linking Obama's stupidity with his stupid actions hit a nerve.
     
  4. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest

    ughhh, it was a friggin' bow!!!

    holy!
     
  5. Bevo Incognito

    Bevo Incognito 5,000+ Posts


     
  6. JohnnyM

    JohnnyM 2,500+ Posts

    6721 - someone's stupidity hit a nerve, but it wasn't Obama's.
     
  7. El Torito

    El Torito 1,000+ Posts


     
  8. RomaVicta

    RomaVicta 5,000+ Posts


     
  9. Bevo Incognito

    Bevo Incognito 5,000+ Posts

    This is not so much a discussion of the bow but, rather, what it symbolizes vis a vis U.S. foreign policy going forward and what it says about how Obama views the U.S. roll in the world: will it be unipolar, like Bush's, or multipolar ---- even tripartite, with the Americas, Europe, and Asia comprising the pieces?


    El Torito said "Peace through strength."

    Perhaps, but strength is the ability to project power and influence events beyond your borders. The reality is that the last eight years have left the U.S. with a weakened ability to so. We entered the Bush administration's eight years in power as the dominant player on the world stage and ended it as one of several. Obama's recognition of this reality is to his credit.

    If we are going to regain our worldwide standing and stature, it is only going to come by understanding that we're in a different world now.

    We are only as good as the values we project.
     
  10. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest

    what did this symbolize? respect or servility?

    [​IMG]

    I say respect, but you might think differently.
     
  11. El Torito

    El Torito 1,000+ Posts

    Bevo - I do agree that this issue is about more than a bow. It speaks to the image we want to project to the world and how we want to be perceived.

    When viewed in the context of Obama's diplomatic posture, this bow is part, I think, of a broader strategy that involves dramatically recasting the image we project. From his speeches in Cairo, Europe, the United Nations, etc., Obama has drawn a stark contrast to the Bush Administration by apologizing for American policies, downplaying the projection American power into the world, seeking to negotiate with state sponsors of terror/rogue states (Iran, North Korea), and increasingly isolating Israel. While I disagree with all of these positions, I want the President to succeed. Almost a year later, the fruits of this strategy are cause for alarm.

    Despite his aggressive attempts to "re-brand" the American label, Obama has encountered aggressive European opposition to major American economic policies such as stimulus spending (the G-20 Summit) and virtual European military abandonment of both Iraq and a deteriorating Afghanistan, where we stand essentially alone.

    Despite winks and nods from the Obama Administration to us, its military and diplomatic concessions to Russia (the missile defense shield) have yielded nothing remotely as valuable as to what we gave up. Our East European allies are in the shadow of a resurgent Russian Bear and Putin/Medvedev have left us holding the proverbial bag on Iran and the possibility of sanctions.

    While Ahmadinejad flirts with and teases Obama, Iran's atomic program is at critical mass at the same time its mullahs have crushed a nascent democratic movement. Meanwhile, Israel is poised to launch a military strike at Iran's atomic facility that would undoubtedly provoke retaliation from Iran and its proxies, such as Hezbollah. Dare we think of a region-wide conflict?

    North Korea continues to conduct underground atomic tests and launches ballistic missiles with regularity. Feeding off voluminous American stimulus spending, China bankrolls our spending and barely lifts a finger to put any pressure on the North Koreans to do anything.

    On climate and emissions issues, the China, India, Brazil and the rest of the developing world are completely, absolutely and undeniably in favor so long as we pay for it.

    Roma - for my two cents, I believe we are worse off now.

    YoLa - your pic, to me, symbolizes help and friendship. But then again, we have had, on balance, a pretty helpful and friendly relationship with both Saudi Arabia and Japan. Which is why its hard to figure out what Obama hopes to gain by such public displays to our allies. [​IMG]
     
  12. ScoPro

    ScoPro 1,000+ Posts

    It means friendship & trust, I think.

    Fascinating US Army manual on Arab culture:







    The Link
     
  13. ScoPro

    ScoPro 1,000+ Posts

    double post
     
  14. 911_horn

    911_horn 500+ Posts

    So far his efforts at projecting a subservient image to other leaders has produced exactly jack **** in terms of furthering US interests which last I checked was supposed to be his first priority. so we look weak, and the Iranians, Russians, and the same usual list of suspects ratchet up their antics knowing Obama will do nothing, but hey he looks like a nice guy bowing to other leaders in a manner not one other POTUS in history has done. Geez what upside for us. What a great way to represent America. All show no results.
     
  15. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest


     
  16. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    yo
    "Well, for some on here and the foreign policy that they wish the US would employ, a kick in the emperor's nuts would have been the more appropriate greeting. "

    Who on here indicated they thought Obama should have kicked the Emperor of Japan in the nuts?
     
  17. YoLaDu

    YoLaDu Guest

    hyberbole, man, hyperbole.
     
  18. RomaVicta

    RomaVicta 5,000+ Posts


     
  19. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    yo
    ok, sure.
    but to be clear the issue isn't that anyone wanted obama to be mean or rude, just to follow the established protocol of over 200 years of USA diplomacy . A cordial handshake as all other heads of state extended to the Emperor would have been find and respectful.

    It isn't like obama didn't know that bowing at the waist like he did wouldn't call his knowledge of how to act around other heads of state into question.

    Important? only slightly when added in with all his other gaffes.
    It was deliberate for some reason we will never know
     
  20. JohnnyM

    JohnnyM 2,500+ Posts


     
  21. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    I don't care about what this means for Obama's foreign policy or whether or not this makes us look weak. I just want to know what all the Americans who took part in the Bataan Death March would have thought about the President of the United States bowing to the emperor of japan.
     
  22. RomaVicta

    RomaVicta 5,000+ Posts

    Maybe they'd have a more balanced perspective than somebody trying desperately to find the right emotional chord to feed their need for scorn.

    Maybe the Japanese are upset because the emperor (what an odd title in this day) received the leader of the country that firebombed Tokyo and dropped two nukes on them.

    Maybe we should never have struck up a relationship with Britain after the dickheads burned our capitol.

    Or maybe we should let the past be the past and deal with who we are and what we want today.

    (Lemme see, I will now become a WWII veteran hater in the eyes of those who have vision for only what they want to see. Oh well.)
     
  23. Htown77

    Htown77 5,000+ Posts

    As I said before, I don't care about the foreign policy issue of it. I DEFENDED Obama for bowing to the Queen of England here on west mall. I have a problem with Obama bowing to the son of a leader who made war on the United States less than 70 years ago. Numerous survivors of the Bataan are still alive. As for England, I would say that two world wars fought together and the assistance they gave us in Iraq more than make up for the American Revolution, the War of 1812 and worst of all the pig war. I feel no remorse for the firing bombing of Japan or the two atom bombs. They had it coming. Last, I never called you a veteran hater. I actually would not care if you were a veteran hater (!!!!! I'm not calling you a veteran hater!!!!!) since many in my family have fought for the rights of Americans to hate veterans and freely express those views.
     
  24. RomaVicta

    RomaVicta 5,000+ Posts


     
  25. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    johnnym
    "why does there have to be some secret meaning behind everything? "
    Reading comprehension is a wondrous thing. I said deliberate, I didn't say secret meaning.
    Unless obama is such a doofus he doesn't consult his protocol people he knew the established protocol for a President greeting another head of state. Obama also knew the stir created when he bowed to the Saudi King but didn't bow to QE.

    If Obama is a smart as his supporters like to believe then his bowing to Akihito was deliberate.
    I say again not overly important, just another of his many gaffes and should drop out of the news cycle today.
     
  26. RomaVicta

    RomaVicta 5,000+ Posts


     
  27. Horn6721

    Horn6721 10,000+ Posts

    rv
    thank you for reminding me to not over estimate some posters knowledge of current events and I can see that remark about obama's bow as an apology for USA making Hirohito sign surrender papers for MacArthur has confused you.
    That is a reference to Obama's view of the word victory vis a vis Afghanistan. I think it was July( would that be considered current?) Obama said the word victory invokes the notion of Emperor Hirohito ( Akihito's father) signing surrender papers for MacArthur . I will try to find the quote.
    Here is another clarification for those who ,like obama, don't know; Hirohito did not sign the surrender papers.
     
  28. MTF

    MTF 1,000+ Posts


     
  29. RomaVicta

    RomaVicta 5,000+ Posts


     
  30. JohnnyM

    JohnnyM 2,500+ Posts

    6721 - YOU said it was in apology for the surrender.


     

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