I just want to say for the record, that all of the snow we are experiencing in the northeast says NOTHING (in my opinion of course) about Global Warming......i think it is ridiculous that skeptics are pointing to it as some sort of sign that global warming isn't happening.....it only needs to be 32 degrees to snow (not even that cold actually but you know what i mean), and 1 degree of warming over the past 150 years is not going to slow down snow in a region that regularly gets FAR colder....i find it hilarious that people on both sides are trying to say it means something. silly silly silly..... It is funny that Kennedy said a couple of years ago that due to Global Warming DC wouldn't hardly have any more snow going forward (this is a VERY rough paraphrase of course).......but that was stupid of him and it is stupid of skeptics to act like snow is somehow the antithesis of global warming (unless it is in some warm clime or something but even then weather and climate need to be carefully distinguished by both sides).
i know it means nothing in the grand scheme, and it is silly to use this to support either side; however, i do find it highly irritating that when we have a hot *** summer lately it is due to GW, but when we have a cold *** winter.... as in, i live in dallas and this has been one cold effin winter for here, that is simply an anomoly. if we happen to have a really hot summer, i can't wait to hear it ratchet up again.
You are sooooo right. Blizzards, bitter cold and record snow falls couldn't possibly be relevant. Heck, it's not even relevant in regards to the extent of global warming is less than thought, much less any kind of cooling. It probably even proves that the earth has a fever. Record heat waves are very much relevant though. This kind of thinking only confirms that Global Warming is a religion. It takes a lot of faith to follow that malarkey.
Most critics of global warming are attacking a very simplistic view of it. Global warming doesn't mean that the whole world is getting warmer all the time or that it won't ever snow in a place like Minnesota. Different places of the world display different temperature trends. Some places might be getting colder and some might be getting warmer. It is also does not imply being warmer all the time in every month of the year, it is the yearly mean temperature that is being focused on. Only slight changes occur each year, and we are talking about only a couple of degrees over the course of many years which might cause drastic effects. However, I do believe that overall, the mean global temperature is rising fractionally each year. One effect of global warming appears to be the disruption of the normal weather patterns, which contributes to the crazy weather and fierce storms we have been having in recent years. There also may be additional effects, for example, increased rate of melting of the polar ice caps which will cause the sea levels to rise. Yes, polar ice caps melt and refreeze each year, and the amount can vary in different years, but overall the amount that appears to be refreezing is getting less and less.
horns58, you MAY be right, but that sort of reasoning is a trump card that AGW enthusiasts can basically use to explain EVERYTHING....and to quote the old addage "anything that explains everything really explains nothing." i think it is best to not make too much of lots of snow because snow does not equal cold. as fondren road said....it has snowed alot in New York but hasn't been that cold (i will take him at a his word). now, needless to say, i am a HUGE skeptic of AGW but I still don't think that pointing at lots of snow is a very useful thing, unless it is lots of snow in Floriday or South Texas or something. It is annoying that the NY Times posted an article about how the snow is DUE to Global Warming....that is utterly ridiculous.
yeah, but don't blizzards and snow have more to do about the amount of moisture in the air instead of a degree or two difference in the temperature? So, more moisture in the air equals more blizzard type conditions. They just happen to be occuring in a 30 degree temperature vs. a 28 degree temperature. Couldn't an abundance of moisture in the air, more than normal, be a major component of climate change? I am obviously no meteorologist, but maybe someone could expand more clearly on that.
Yes YoLaDu, I think you are correct....but i think you are describing the CAUSE of global warming and not the result...or possibly both. A new study just showed that in fact there has been more moisture in the air the past few decades and that THIS is responsible for most of the Global Warming we have witnessed. It is my strong suspicion that the earth has a natural thermostat that adjusts according to inputs....as temperature rises the thermostatic responses adjust accordingly to bring it back down and vice versa.
North Atlantic Oscillations could also be a factor. Please note that while the eastern US is being buried in snow, they are badly short of snow at the lower elevations in and near Vancouver. LINK
I think that this has been the most consistently cold winter in Austin, too. I don't think we've had more than a few days over 70 (if even a few) since before Thanksgiving. Like mop, I deduce nothing global about this. It's just that I can't remember the last winter where there wasn't an 80 degree day and a lot of days in the 70s over the same period.
I wasn't implying that global warming causes snow or a lack therof. And I wasn't discussing the causes of global warming. Global warming only describes a change in temperature. But the change in temperature may have an effect on other areas, such as sea levels and even NAO, all of which may affect weather patterns. Additionally, the causes for global warming may contribute not just to global warming, but may have an effect in these other areas as well. I don't think you can isolate one factor as the cause of all the problems. Everything is linked to some degree.
OMG, the southern hemisphere of the planet is going through a heat wave right now, it must be global warming! But wait, the northern hemisphere is really cold right now, so global warming must be ********! How in the hell can global warming both exist and not exist at the same moment??? And in 6 months, when the northern hemisphere is hot, and the southern hemisphere cold, global warming will again be in existence and not existence. The only possible explanation is that global warming is migrating because it likes warm weather, so it goes where it's always summer.
mop, I completely agree with you. However, I find it highly ironic that anyone in Wash DC would brach the subject of GW or any Climate change bill while in the middle of a record snowstorm.
Horn 58? "One effect of global warming appears to be the disruption of the normal weather patterns, which contributes to the crazy weather and fierce storms we have been having in recent years." So what was the cause of the weather patterns that resulted in the abnormal weather patterns 100 years ago? Some of the records being broken now were set 90-100 years ago. What is a " normal weather pattern"?
Any number of things could have caused the disruptions in the weather 100 years ago that you speak of. Maybe one of the factors some of the other posters have mentioned. Maybe something else. Some variations in weather and temperature are to be expected, but what we are experiencing now is beyond typical expectation. As I said in my second post, I don't think you can isolate one factor as the cause of every problem and then call it a day. That also is a very simplistic view, and fortunately or unfortunately, the world is not a simplistic place. By the way, here are some charts posted on Wikipedia illustrating temperature trends. link Reconstructions of Northern Hemisphere temperatures for the 2nd millennium according to various older articles (bluish lines), newer articles (reddish lines), and instrumental record (black line). Instrumental Temperature record of the last 150 years.
horn58...here's a little challenge for you....see how many of those charts you reference use Michael Mann, Phil Jones or CRU as a source.....
Anthropogenic Climate Change is almost certainly a real phenomenon. The problem is that it's worth too much money to get a real, objective look at what is going on. For a simliar problem, look at studies on cancer treatments. These fields are redefining "sophisticated statistical methods", which is another way of saying that they are finding new ways to torture their data into confessions.
Did i miss sarcasm in mop's original post? I thought the intent was to dismiss anecdotal, snapshot evidence as far as reaching any conclusion about Global Warming. I know mop's position on the subject, but that's what I thought he was doing. Oh well.
not at all roma...you understood me correctly....there was not a hint of sarcasm. i was trying to pre-empt those who would misunderstand my position or misrepresent me. i think it is utterly stupid for people on either side of the issue to use a particularly large snowfall in an area that gets lots of snow already as meaning anything.
Yo, I get your point, but I don't have a narrow world view. I think AGW is a complex subject that scientists have yet to agree on. It's just fun to interject a little irony or humor when the NE is having a massive snowstorm and there are threads on GW.
Stop thinking about in terms of "global warming" and start thinking of it in terms of "climate change". A desert's climate is dry, no? Any arguments? Well, from time to time, and it's not an anomaly, the weather in the desert is raining. Does it disprove that deserts exist?
hornbud....that's great, but the question remains, are we too blame? Those of us who question climate change, actually question Anthropogenic Climate Change because climate change has existed for 4 billion years. The real question is what is the cause of this?
mop, why is assigning blame necessary? The fact is, it's happening, it is strongly correlated with CO2 use, and there are going to be very real consequences in the future which will make living on this Earth more challenging if we don't start figuring out how to adapt.
