Longhorns barred from Big 12 play?

Discussion in 'On The Field' started by Texas Jack, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. Hornfan#10

    Hornfan#10 25+ Posts

    If we leave the big 12 I think a&m and or oklahoma may as well, the big 12 is nothing without us or ou.
     
  2. Rio Frio

    Rio Frio 250+ Posts

    If UT goes to the Big Ten/Pac-10, look for A&M in the SEC.
     
  3. Desert__Scar

    Desert__Scar 100+ Posts

    The original poster does realize OU had been a non-conference game for 90% of the rivalry. Besides, OU & A&M might go with Texas, or if not, can land on their own 2 feet. Either way these can be nonconference regulars, OU & UT did it before, the Florida/Georgia/S. Carolina schools do it, etc.

    Tech & Baylor, they would be in dire straits, but they have always got more than they have given in the arrangement & really don't belong in a tier 1 conference anyway.

    UT needs to go where their are peers or near peers, and demographics/tv--Big 10, Pac-10 or SEC.
     
  4. Pericles

    Pericles 1,000+ Posts

    Who got necked?
     
  5. FWHORN

    FWHORN 10,000+ Posts

    The original premise for this thread simply isnt realistic, no conference can tell its members not to play someone, period, not even open for hypothetical debate. They cant. It would violate Federal antitrust law, violate Texas state law with respect to the Texas institutions in the conference, probabaly violate the laws of the states in which the rest of the schools operate and certainly violate NCAA rules which ban such practices as a result of the sordid history of schools refusing to play other institutions who had Black athletes. Schools can choose on their own not play someone (as Texas has done with the University of Houston following the bleachergate fiasco) but if a conference tried it as a policy that would be the end of that conference.

    As for the rest of the Big XII and Texas owing them something, we dont owe them jack and any decision whether to move should be based on what is best for this institution and not some antiquated notion of owing something to a conference that is not even a decade and a half old.
     
  6. buckhorn

    buckhorn 1,000+ Posts

    Ridiculous.

    Nevermind that a Big XII without Texas is not long for the world or for holding its best teams from playing Texas.

    The state leg may say no, but the conference can't keep other teams from playing Texas anymore than it can keep Texas from leaving.
     
  7. XOVER

    XOVER 500+ Posts

    The entire premise that Texas would be "barred" from B12 play "forever" for moving to another conference is absolutely preposterous. Silly. On many levels.

    Not the least important of which is that if Texas left there would be no B12.

    OU not come to Dallas? Laughable. OU's lifeblood is Texas/OU. Who is OU gonna replace Texas with? Aggy? Tech? Or that monster program, TCU?

    Silly premise. Barred. What a hoot.

    Worry not for Texas if Texas leaves the B12.
     
  8. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts


     
  9. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts


     
  10. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts


     
  11. coolhorn

    coolhorn 2,500+ Posts

    I wasn't gonna react to the idea that UT "owes" the Big XII anything, but...

    UT has largely been, along with OU, the face of the Big XII since the conference came into being. We're the two biggest brand names, with the two biggest national reputations, and our reps have enhanced the Big XII tremendously for marketing purposes.

    Nobody's standing around saying the rest of the conference should pat us on the back for representing so well, but let's take a look at the way UT is viewed by pretty much the rest of the conference. We're disliked because allegedly we're arrogant. We're envied, in the wrong way, because UT has huge advantages in finances and location, and we've utilized them to be successful in most sports. We're resented because at the formation of the conference, we pushed for more stringent admission policies and better academics.

    Bottom line...everytime we've taken a position, most of the rest of the Big XII has taken the opposite position. The idea still exists that somehow, the original Big 8 members did us this favor we should be forever grateful for by taking the four Texas schools in like lost orphans. (What was that about huge tv markets like Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Austin/San Antonio...?)

    UT is not obligated to take care of agricultural in any proposed move, and yes, I have an idea the folks over in the Brazos River bottoms would fit more comfortably in the SEC than the Big 10 or PAC 10.

    We don't have to be in the same conference as aggy, or okie, to continue playing them...and the real bottom line is this. Today's Big XII isn't that strong in tv markets compared to the Big 10, SEC, and PAC 10. Lose Denver, and St. Louis, which is surely gonna happen in a few years, if not sooner, and the Big XII is gonna be a pretty miserable neighborhood to be in.

    I'm all for Dodds doing his due diligence concerning the offers on the table out there for UT. We do NOT owe the Big XII diddly squat...and any move UT makes is for its' advantage, not for any petty reasons like getting back at the Big XII. The conference is NOT stable, and staying in it is increasingly not an option. THAT'S the real world of conference alignment involving UT these days.
     
  12. txhorn2010

    txhorn2010 250+ Posts


     
  13. watashi

    watashi 250+ Posts

    "Loyalty" and a "sense of obligation" seem to be an undercurrent in this thread. Why? Who cares? Don't think for a moment any of the other B12 schools wouldn't bolt for a better deal - they would. Let's face it, this conference has never achieved much cohesiveness between the old Big8 and SWC members the organizers had sought. I don't see that changing any time soon. With the next round of TV deals, the conferences are likely to re-align anyway...so now or later it's coming. Do you want to be pro-active or wait?
     
  14. coolhorn

    coolhorn 2,500+ Posts

    I understand those who are resistant to the idea of UT leaving the Big XII. The loyalty's not necessarily to the conference, but rather, to location. I understand folks saying we need to stay in our natural region, with our longtime rivals.

    Unfortunately, big time college athletics is and always has been money-driven, and networks call the shots in college athletics a lot more than some people are comfortable with through their longterm multi-million dollar deals with the conferences. Those deals are predicated on how many perceived tv sets a conference can deliver.

    The Big XII is middle of the pack in major tv markets, and looking at losing two of the biggest markets, Denver and St. Louis, in the next year or two. There are no comparable tv markets close enough to replace those two with. It's not that a pared down Big XII will fall apart like a cheap suit, but the conference won't have the resources, the tv markets, to drive a big new tv deal.

    UT has a decision to make. Right now, we're the pretty girl out there that everybody wants a date with. The Big Ten and PAC Ten conferences have already begun looking into expansion, and begun casting covetous eyes at UT. If the school is willing to listen to offers, to consider those offers, UT has some nice options that aren't there for everybody else in the Big XII, options that won't stay on the table forever.

    UT administrators, including DeLoss Dodds, would be remiss in doing their duty not to consider conference relocation. It's way early in the process, and no decisions have been made. Everything is on the table and should be considered.

    I know UT's apparent dislike of the SEC is pretty well-accepted, but I wouldn't even be surprised to see us at least take a look at that, if the SEC should decide it's interested in fourteen teams.

    We're in a time where college athletics is in a state of flux, and the old way of doing business is pretty much out the window. That means UT officials HAVE to think outside the box in looking at conference relocation. Some current Big XII schools are going to be left behind...but that can't be helped, and it's not UT's responsibility to provide for all the other schools.
     
  15. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts


     
  16. coolhorn

    coolhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Bob Bullock's no longer with us, and neither is Ann Richards. If UT is willing to work with our agriculturally-inclined bretheren to the east of us, such that they have someplace to land (SEC?), some members of the legislature might whine a bit, but when push comes to shove, UT will be able to move to whichever conference it wants, and without losing a dime in state funding. That's the way the legislative threat will play out.
     
  17. bierce

    bierce 1,000+ Posts

    I don't doubt for a minute that the Legislature might put up a huge hurdle to UT leaving the Big 12 without some kind of plan in place for other Texas state supported schools, but that wasn't the obstacle we were asked to address initially in this thread.
     
  18. Wesser

    Wesser 1,000+ Posts

    The whole premises of this thread is just f-ing dumb. The Big XII doesn't have any say over who its member schools play non-conference. The Big XII isn't sanctioning the game and it doesn't regulate the game. They don't control such activities of their member schools.

    Even if 9 members got together and banned everyone from playing us, OU and A&M would just do one of three things: 1) abide by the ban (unlikely); 2) just play us anyway and tell the conference to screw off - enforce your pitiful rule against the two biggest schools left in the conference (likely); 3) they would just bolt for the SEC (even more likely).

    That is what you are forgetting in your post of dread and despair. Okie and aggy aren't just gonna sit around and twiddle their thumbs. They will be looking to bolt too. I can't imagine that the Big 12 would be courting them to stay while dictating to them that in order to stay they would both have to forego their biggest rival. That's kinda like asking a girl for date then telling her she has to pay. Not the way to win her over. Think.
     
  19. Bill_McNeal

    Bill_McNeal 250+ Posts


     
  20. eflow24

    eflow24 1,000+ Posts

    Texas Jack, yo uare so misinformed that I do not even know where to start. Instead, I will just say this: Ou will NEVER turn down a chance to keep our rivalry alive no matter where we go. We played them for 75+ years before we joined conferences and that would continue. The BIg 12 could not do a single thing about it.

    aggy would NEVER turn down a chance to play us whether we are in the same conference or not. The Big 12 could not do a SINGLE thing about it.

    If Texas decides to move to the Big 10 in the next two years, the votes are there to make it happen, period.

    Lastly, what is the Big 12 going to do if its champion makes the BCS NAtional Championship game and has to play Texas? Are they going to decline?
     
  21. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts


     
  22. coolhorn

    coolhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Sorry Jack, but it's not the end of the story.

    Sometime in the next two to three years, UT is gonna have to get very serious about changing its' conference affiliation. The Big XII is headed the way of the old SWC, and the Horns don't want to get stuck again.

    There are three realistic choices. The Big 10. The PAC 10. The SEC. None is a perfect answer for us, but if UT wants to remain relevant in BCS play, we're gonna have to make a move.

    I'd be interested in anyone else's take on which is the best way to go in leaving the Big XII. I just don't see making the Big XII stronger as a reasonable option.
     
  23. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts


     
  24. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts

    You know what I find really comical about these thread and this board in general...

    Go talk to some ppl out in the world, the people of this board are under the impression that the sky is falling and hell is freezing over. This is a huge joke and the only ones who are running around with their heads cut off are Hornfans
    members.


    No one in the real world outside this forum believes Texas will leave the big or that the big 12 is crumbling.
     
  25. BevoMDCXVIII

    BevoMDCXVIII 100+ Posts


     
  26. Statalyzer

    Statalyzer 10,000+ Posts


     
  27. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts


     
  28. Texas Jack

    Texas Jack 1,000+ Posts


     
  29. coolhorn

    coolhorn 2,500+ Posts

    Let's just say we agree to disagree Jack. I don't believe in happy endings or the yellow brick road, and from what I've seen of the Big XII for over a decade, I don't believe it's gonna be around much longer. I do believe UT needs to decide which direction to go in when it realigns with another conference.
     
  30. SoonerAtKU

    SoonerAtKU 100+ Posts

    Would the threat of big-name, big-audience schools be enough to push for a better TV deal next time around? Could the conference negotiate from a stronger position if Colorado, Missouri, Texas, and a few others all make noise about leaving if the money's not good enough?

    As an OU fan, it'd make me sad to lose even CU or MU, as they've been conference foes for far longer than I've been alive. Texas is a completely different matter. I think it would absolutely be the beginning of the end for the Big XII, and as great as OU/Texas has been even as an OOC game, having conference titles on the line has made a great rivalry even greater.

    Having seen it this way, I know I wouldn't be as satisfied seeing it go back to being less immediately impactful. Doesn't it make it more fun knowing that you have to follow your rival every week, rooting against (in rare cases, for) them in order to accomplish everything you want from a season?

    Anyhow, those are my thoughts regarding the financial reasons, and the non-tangible reasons I'd rather have Texas in the Big XII.
     

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