What if...?

Discussion in 'West Mall' started by Musburger, May 13, 2010.

  1. Musburger

    Musburger 500+ Posts

    ...a few months from now President Obama gave a speech like the one I've written below? I think we'll get some version of this down the road. How will Americans react? How would you react?

    My fellow Americans:

    I stand before you tonight because it's time for every American to understand the path we've been on, where we need to go, and determine the best way to get there.

    We've been blessed to live in America. This is a land of abundance. We have the greatest agricultural system in the world, the finest educational system, and the unique benefits of pooling knowledge and experience from the most divers group of citizens in the history of mankind. However for several years now, in fact, for several decades, we have lived beyond our means. Our deficits have grown at a pace that, if continued unabated, threaten the very existence of our Republic. The national debt is now more than $13 trillion dollars and the projected spending on entitlements in the years ahead will only add to that debt if unchecked. This is unsustainable.

    I know that everyone is aware of the financial events going on in Europe. Greece is relatively small country. Their GDP represents only about 2% of the entire European Union. Greece's debt got out of hand and threatened to bring down the entire currency of the Euro zone. In order to rescue the Euro, the member nations coordinated a plan with the IMF, the European Central Banks, and our Federal Reserve. Thanks to bold measures, a catastrophe has been averted.

    But the danger of a recurrence is still there. The European nations recognize their predicament and have taken steps to ensure that the stability of their respective countries remain in tact. In order to achieve long-term success and maintain the belief that their children can look forward to a bright future, the people of Europe have agreed to make sacrifices. For some, it means reduced wages. For many, it may require paying a little bit more when they make a purchase. Without these measures, it is almost certainty that the European economy would completely collapse. If that happened, the chaos and suffering would be horrific.

    Folks, if we don't make similar sacrifices, we will soon find ourselves facing the same grave challenges that Europe is now facing. We can't wait any longer. I've put together a plan that will guide us through this time of struggle so that we can get our financial house in order as a country so that we can pass on our dreams to our children and their children.

    I realize that many of you are out of work, and without assistance, would not have the resources to feed your family. I'm not going to cut anybody off. But the fact is, in order to continue providing the assistance that so many require, the government has to have the revenue to provide that assistance. We can't continue to borrow the money because there just isn't anywhere left for us to lend from.

    In Europe, when citizens purchase an item, the cost includes something called a value added tax. In most countries the rate exceeds 20%. America doesn't even have a value added tax. This additional revenue can be put to use by the government to help pay for the important services that so many of our fellow citizens require. I'm not going to ask Americans to pay 20%, but I think a 5% value added tax is a fair price to pay in order for everyone to do their part in helping our country in this time of great challenges. When a citizen buys something, that citizen, no matter whether he or she is wealthy or poor, will have the satisfaction of knowing they've played a part in saving our country.

    Entitlement expenditures are growing at a pace that cannot be sustained. Current projections show that both medicare and social security will be bankrupt before the end of the decade. I want you to know, if you currently collect social security, the government is not going to take away your benefits. Many of you listening tonight have not yet reached retirement age. Did you know that when social security was implemented, the life expectancy for men and women was less than the age where you become eligible to collect benefits? Due to advances in medicine, we now can expect to live much longer than our forefathers. In order to preserve social security so that it will be there for all of us when we reach old age, I'm proposing that we phase out the current age of ability and extend it to 75. We would implement this change over the next 15 years. Most people are still healthy and able to work well into their 70's. now. I've put together a bipartisan commission to study how we can curtail expanding entitlement spending. This was one of their recommendations.

    As time goes on, we'll evaluate progress and make other recommendations that will help our country get back on track.
     
  2. fratboy_legend

    fratboy_legend 500+ Posts

    The speech is coming for sure and the policy, if enacted, will be the killshot to this country.

    some will react favorably, but naively, assuming altruistic intent of those in washington. most will react unfavorably, because there is absolutely zero upside in it for anybody, individually (unless you are one of the 535 people in congress who get to actually allocate the dollars).

    if the government wants to really reduce the burden 'fairly', they would inflate their way out of it. It has generally the same effect as the consumption tax but the dollars don't flow through the incompetents on capitol hill.
     
  3. CedarParkFan

    CedarParkFan 1,000+ Posts

    As I was reading it, I did so in Obama's voice. I just happened automatically. Yep, I can see it and I can hear it. It's definitely not out of the realm of possibility. I can see a VAT in our future for sure.
     
  4. texascoder

    texascoder 1,000+ Posts


     
  5. Oilfield

    Oilfield Guest

    I'm sure there will be some opt out features to a VAT to ensure that 50% of the population continues to skate over the workers in this country. Thus (like the healthcare sham) at the end of the day nothing will be fixed.

    For Obama, the VAT is just a wealth redistribution ploy, just as the "healthcare" bill was. Likewise Cap & Tax. If you follow Obama's pre-Presidential stances on these issues, you can see exactly what is happening. This has absolutely nothing to do with financial integrity After 16 months in office that much should be perfectly obvious.
     
  6. hornyhoosier

    hornyhoosier 500+ Posts


     
  7. dalhorn1

    dalhorn1 1,000+ Posts

    i guess i'm ignorant, but, why is this VAT not referred to as a federal tax? Wouldn't the Fed be the one introducing it and enforcing it?

    I assume that the phrase "federal tax" would just make peoples' stomachs turn and obama would have a tougher time arguing that he's not going to raise taxes for anyone making less than 500k, 300k, 250k, 200k, 150k or whatever he's increased the taxable suckerbase to now.

    Also, someone mentioned ways to be excluded from a VAT. Would this be added to everything, like a pack of gum, a pair of jeans, car, home, jewelry, toothpaste, even investment items like stock shares, gold, bonds? If it indeed is introduced, does this mean that unionized factories and organizations automatically get a pass on the tax?
     
  8. Oilfield

    Oilfield Guest

    The key element of VAT is that it is added to EVERY step of the manufacturing process. There is no wholesale or tax free purchases for resale. If you buy a product that goes through 5 different manufacturing or distribution steps then VAT is applied at every step so the actual tax paid by the consumer increases exponentially. 5% VAT could cause a 25 - 30% increase in final prices (before state sales tax gets added) perhaps much much more.

    If your desire is to put a dagger in the heart of the U.S. Economy, this would be your dagger.
     
  9. accuratehorn

    accuratehorn 10,000+ Posts

    That won't happen. They will just rasise the benefits age a few months at a time, as necessary, and it may or may not be accompanied by any kind of speech. This has already happened a couple of times without a lot of fanfare. No politician is going to step up and say "tomorrow we are increasing the social security retirement age by 8 or 9 or 10 years. Ain't gonna happen. It could well evolve into that over time, though.
     
  10. THEU

    THEU 2,500+ Posts

    The VAT is a massively regressive tax. If Obama were to give a speech like that he would not only break his promise to not raise taxes on those making less than 250k, but he would really be saying, I want the poor to pay an even greater amount.
    The problem in America is not income. The problem in America is spending and entitlements. He would do better to say what we who are under 40 know already. SS will not be there for us. Just tell us that. Be up front and say we are going to keep taxing you to pay for your parents retirement, but there will be nothing left for you. Also, we will be raising the SS/Medicare age 1 year every year until we get it to 80. You will no longer recieve this Social Security INSURANCE, until you are 80. When it was first put in place 65 was more than the average life expectancy, so we must raise the age as our life expectancy has raised as well.
    Cutting federal expenditures about 50% would be relatively easy. Just tell people to stop expecting to ride the backs of the government. FDR and LBJ have walked us dow the road where only massive fiscal control by the federal government will get us out, unless we get off this wheel of insanity.
     
  11. general35

    general35 5,000+ Posts

    The speech is coming for sure and the policy, if enacted, will be the killshot to this country.
    __________________________________________________

    the speech will not happen, they will just stick the VAT tax increase into some legislation, like the banking reform bill that doesnt touch reform on freddie mae or freddie mac and they will hope nobody reads the bill.
     
  12. msdw24

    msdw24 1,000+ Posts

    And in that speech will he say ANTHING about cutting expenes? Probably not.

    CUT THE SPENDING. You can not just increase taxes and expect things to get better.....at some point the people paying the taxes are not going to do it anymore.
     
  13. texascoder

    texascoder 1,000+ Posts


     
  14. BattleshipTexas

    BattleshipTexas 1,000+ Posts


     
  15. yelladawgdem

    yelladawgdem 2,500+ Posts

    I thought it was going to be what if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly?

    Would an airborne First Lady have signifigently shortened the war in Europe?
     
  16. THEU

    THEU 2,500+ Posts

    I am all for raising the age at which you are eligible for benefits. That would be a great thing. People need to learn to save for themselves and be responsible for their own lives. No more, when I get old the government will take care of me....
     

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